Oh, yeah, I forgot: one very great advantage of owning is that you can do whatever you want with the space (assuming it's legal I mean) :-) I don't have any restrictions on opening times or access or permitted uses or renovation or any of that; I am considering putting solar panels on the roof for instance and I have a garden on the roof as well as the one in back. Didn't have to check with the owner. :-)
Jeannine On Apr 13, 11:03 am, Jeannine <[email protected]> wrote: > I am a little bass-ackwards in this -- okay, not just in this. I > started Kamer52 in a space I already owned. I live in a 400 year old > house; the former stable has been used through the years as a lot fo > things, including a car painting shop, a bicycle shop, and so forth. > My in-laws converted it to two office spaces, a larger one which they > used themselves. and a smaller one which they rented out. > > One of the spaces came free and I decided to introduce a cooperative > model of rural cowrking in it. Here's the first Kamer52, the street > address is 52a: (You didn't think you would get away without looking > at pics, did > you)?https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118169975709205235263/albums/55716... > > After about a year, the size of the space was becoming an issue -- > there were only two rooms and the kitchen, and if somebody had a > meeting in the large front space, nobody could use the smaller space > in the back. So we moved in January to the new Kamer52, in 52b, the > larger space which had just come > free:https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/118169975709205235263/albums/56963... > > My new tenant in the smaller space is a computer repair shop, he has > jumped into the coworking thing with both feet and so now we have a > situation that is sort of coworking with an anchor, in both spaces. > > Because I had to start with no community (I *know*, Alex, I *know*, > but when I started I was only partially literate in Dutch and may I > add that having immigrated here when I was pushing 40, starting with a > community is not as easy as you might think? I knew no one, other > than the parents of my kids' friends.) I don't think I could have done > it if I had been renting. I only had to cover my mortgage; the > utilities for a 400 year old building with half meter thick stone > walls are complicated but in essence it is wired and plumbed as one > building, there is no separation of the utilities and no duct work > absent a couple sticks of dynamite. > > Because of the nature of the laws here, I have become quite chummy > with the folks at City Hall who deal with taxes, permits, zoning, and > so forth. Happily for me thay have in general been uncomprehending > but helpful. One of the issues we have to talk about in the immediate > future is that there are use taxes levied on each business registered > at an address, and I offer a virtual office. I want them to bring > those costs in and bill them to me so I can bill them through, > otherwise it's too confusing. > > But they did cive me a permit to do retail in just the front room, so > long as I don't turn it into a storefront, and they allow me to have > periodic closed workshops in baking and cooking in the back room, as > long as I don't turn it into a cafe or restaurant offering food to the > public, and I call that flexible and am grateful for it. I got the > retail permit so we could sell art. But I am considering offering the > front room for use by people who sell handmade and crafted items; and > also for use by my webshops as a pop-up. > > Indeed, if it doesn't work out, I will just rent it again, we rented > it for years and I could just keep doing that. But it's more fun this > way. > > One thing which is popular in the Netherlands is for folks to enter > into a sort of partnership with property owners to improve the > building as part of the rent; this is especially popular with maker > spaces. (I wish I had a maker space, but we are in the center of town > and I can't get the zoning). I think property owners need to get with > the program and reconsider what it is that they are doing and > offering: commercial real estate has not changed in its essence since > the middle ages and I thinkit's about time it had an overhaul. > > IF there are any questions, fire away, I could go on and on but don't > know what you would want to know. > > Jeannine > On Apr 12, 5:12 pm, John Wilker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > We are currently renting our space. But buying it or another has been on > > our minds since opening. Mainly so we're less limited in what we can do > > with and to the building, as well as improvements. > > > To Alex's point about buying a seat on the bus, you also typically don't > > want to spend a ton of time and money, making someone else's bus pretty and > > super awesome. > > > The motorcycle museum below us (basement) may be moving, and the building > > could someday be up for sale, so one option popping around has been > > securing first right of refusal on the building, and being able to expand > > labs and such downward when the museum leaves. > > > One thing with buying, even if coworking doesn't work out, you have a > > building to rent out, or do something with, for better or worse. > > > John Wilker > > Founder, 360|Conferences > > (720) 381-2370 > > twitter: jwilker (http://twitter.com/jwilker) > > johnwilker.com (http://johnwilker.com/) | 360|MacDev > > (http://360macdev.com/) | 360|Flex (http://360flex.com/) | 360|iDev > > (http://360idev.com/) > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Alex Hillman wrote: > > > I'm actually curious about this too, specifically to hear from coworking > > > spaces that bought early on or those who have graduated to buying. > > > > We're entering into our 3rd major growth phase and the purchasing > > > conversation was on the table - it's not left the table, but we've chosen > > > renting (with a purchase option written into the lease) in favor of the > > > timing of our needs. > > > > Our reasons for buying also include the desire to be building equity as > > > the business grows, but also to continue to anchor ourselves in the > > > neighborhood that we've developed a relationship with over the last 4+ > > > years. We've helped attract lots of new businesses to the area (which is > > > mutually beneficial) and think that impact could increase with a > > > statement of "permanence" that comes with purchasing. > > > > That said, I got one particular piece of advice that's been resonating > > > with me: don't buy a seat on the bus. > > > > A lot of coworking spaces are a floor or a section of a building with > > > other tenants in it. Our current building is like this as well, but is > > > already condo-ized for potential purchase of a floor or floors. In > > > conversations about buying, I've come to the conclusion that we should be > > > buying the building, not a condo in it. > > > > I'm not sure what the situations you're looking for include, but that > > > caution has stuck with me as a good one to consider. > > > > Having never bought property before, though I don't have any specific > > > experience to share how it might impact a coworking space or what > > > implications to consider - so I'd love to hear more experiences from that > > > realm. > > > > -Alex > > > > -- > > > /ah > > > indyhall.org (http://indyhall.org) > > > coworking in philadelphia > > > > On Thursday, April 12, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Tricia Chirumbole wrote: > > > > > Hello all!! > > > > > I am planning on starting a coworking space in Pittsburgh, PA and have > > > > started with a meetup group and events and jellies - I agree with > > > > other posts about the value of building a broader coworking community > > > > that extends beyond finite physical spaces. > > > > > That being said, we do plan to ultimately open up a space. One of my > > > > biggest questions is whether to buy or lease. It seems the predominant > > > > model is leasing, which used to be my preference. However, I do have a > > > > bias in general toward building equity vs. making money for landlords, > > > > AND the market in Pittsburgh seems to be more amenable to buyers than > > > > to renters at this time - I could be off on this as my research is far > > > > from comprehensive, but this is the feel that I get. > > > > > I have an interest in property in general and my partner has both > > > > design and building skills - while we would not do it all on our own, > > > > we do feel that we could make good use of a property irrespective of > > > > the long-term prospects of its use as our coworking home. > > > > > Any and all thoughts welcome and appreciated! I love this group - it > > > > is so informative and valuable! Thanks in advance :) > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "Coworking" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > [email protected] > > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > > For more options, visit this group > > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "Coworking" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected] > > > (mailto:[email protected]). > > > For more options, visit this group > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Coworking" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/coworking?hl=en.
