THANK YOU TAHIR!!!
A rational response, and a way to finally move the discussion forward!
I had hoped to see such statements from this list a long time ago, but I am
certainly glad someone FINALLY had the presence of mind (and courage) to
state fundamentals!!
Let us move forward.
As I wrote (back in July?), I have some fundamental differences with several
of the points you list below, but there is much common ground. I would
certainly like to see the discussion return to this level.
Specifically, I have strong disagreements with points 1 and 3 (and need
some clarification of the direction of point 7 ) However I am largely in
agreement with the other points. It would gratify me personally if we could
discuss those differences and agreements on the list without rancor, or to
have disagreement seen as attack or "red baiting".
I will amplify my viewpoint later, right now let's just see what response
your point 9 brings.
Again, thanks very much for taking the issue seriously enough to have
written this post. I for one appreciate it more than I can articulate.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: TAHIR WOOD <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [CrashList] Re: Warning Signs?
> >>> "Embarkadero" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/05 5:44 AM >>>
> What value, then, is marxism
> to a discussion of the Crash?
>
> 1. All the dynamics that have led to this point have
> occurred within the historical epoch of capitalism.
> 2. The operation of these prodigious forces of production
> are described poetically in the Commuist Manifesto.
> 3. The crash is inherently capitalist - it could not have
> happened under feudalism, for example - which makes a
> critique of capitalism vital to an understanding of the
> crash.
> 4. The best and most thorough critique of capitalism is that
> presented by Karl Marx.
> 5. Marx's critique also suggests an alternative way of
> living together, called communism.
> 6. The most relevant point of all of this is that the crash
> and the destruction of the planet cannot be halted within
> the framework of private property relations.
> 7. It is because this point is disputed by some list members
> that we have to debate with them. If they accepted it and we
> could go on to talking about what a classless world without
> private property would look like then we wouldn't have to
> debate it with them.
> 8. Finally, some other list members still insist that the
> bureaucratic, statist, capitalism that was leninist
> bolshevism, which was and still is responsible for massive
> environmental degradation is a true practical expression of
> Marx's thought. They need to be shown that they're wrong.
> 9. OK one more: if I'm wrong on the last point I'll give up
> defending something called marxism, but the other essential
> points here will still be the same for me.
> Tahir
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