>Of course, I am going to say the root problem is a mentality of controlling
>other people, and you will say that the controlling of nature came first.
>But some control of a small part of nature, that part on which people
>depended, is hard to criticize.
We're very close. I don't have to insist on which came first nor which is
the more salient form of "control". As long as we recognize the root problem
is some kind of controlling mentality, we're together. I insist only that we
be cognizant of the damage that continues to be done by the mentality, and
recognize the danger both to nature and to people.
>CB: There is a lot of objective evidence to base it on in archaeology. The
>state and private property probably start 6-7,000 years ago in Mesopotamia
>and Egypt.
Yes, Quinn is not specific alot but usually is alluding to the fertile
crescent. The DE guys usually vote for that too.
>CB: We go : agriculture and domesticated animals �----> surpluses are
>produced �-----------> predominantly mental laborers live off of the
>surplus and become a division of labor , specialized class �---------> some
>pred. mental laborers start to take advantage of that and form an
>exploiting ruling class.
Yes, I see no reason to argue against that, as far as it goes. In fact the
idea of surpluses is critical to both scenarios.
What disturbs me is that this seems to be the usual point in the discussion
where the exclusion of the ecosphere takes place. Environmental concerns
seem to disappear from the table. It's as if the exploiting ruling class
were busy exploiting people only and not the environment as well. Avoiding
the larger perception that BOTH people and nature were exploited seems to me
to eventually lead to being blindsided to the consequences of the ... uh ...
"natural" exploitation, while we are all pretty aware of the consequences of
the exploitation of people. (Yeah, I realize that a lot of the time I fail
to include "people" in MY statements, and should be more universal in my
comments.)
Thanks,
Tom
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