From a new graduate to be perspective...
I am one of those new graduate (at least hope to be June 2003), I am rather confused by the whole prospect of how to get a job. I find that agencies more often than not have absolutely no idea about what you are talking about and therefore more often than not do not recommend you for a position. Word of mouth - well this is a good idea - and I think CSF is a brillant point of contact.
But lets bring in another argument - what type of CS graduate is the market wanting? Are they wanting a more practical, market ready graduate from Polytech, or a more academic driven student from University?
Also, I study with some very clever, mature, work experienced people - but we are all scared of one thing, that because of our age we may just be left on the pile - and these much desired and scarce jobs will be taken by younger and commercially less experienced students.
I say, develop the CSF job website fully!
Regards
Cecilia
From: "Jens Richnow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Canterbury Software Email Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [csforum] Are we going to let this one get away? Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 16:45:47 +1200
Hi Andrej,
lots of (personal) issues you bring forward. However, if we separate the issues it boils down to simple things and the perspective each of us takes on the(se) problem(s).
As expected the issue of job seekers and advertiser boils down to availability and demand. You don't create an IT industry based on the fact that there is a pool of IT professionals looking for a job. Simple egg and chicken situation as mentioned somewhere elsewhere. Building a strong IT industry will mean a greater demand of IT professionals with competitive salaries.
We can argue about and try to change the way jobs are actually advertised. I agree fully with that. If there is a highly informal job market in CHC then it is a reflection of the state of the IT industry itself. Before head jumping and creating a new newsletter or advertising board to announce available jobs I would like to see existing initiative(s) supported first. I think that the CSF jobs site is a good start and should be used and publicised more effectively.
My personal experience with job advertisement is probably opposite to yours: rather formal, recruitement agency, numerous interviews etc. With all companies I have been with and from what I can gather from friends and guys a know, there are actually not that many jobs filled by word by mouth. And if so, there was/is still an interview phase as you would expect. I have no single example were somebody is hired just for the very fact of being recommended by a friend. In the end you are about to get into a formal relationship (employer-employee) with expectations on both sides. The sad thing is that often the CV does not reflect the actual skill set. So how does a company makes sure that the investment in a new employer works out as expected? Who actually sets up numerous interview stages with tests and tasks? An IT professional with 20 years experience sounds fine, but what if it turns out that the professional grossly underperforms or the IT knowledge is rather outdated? If a DBA gets a job coding stuff who's 'fault' is it (and what if he does actually a very good job?) You can go on with various scenarios but that is not to the point.
I agree with the point that available jobs should be advertised as it increases the pool of potential candidates for specific positions and a closer skill match can be made. To advertise jobs you need the companies looking for skilled employees. In many ways it is a mutual dependency.
Another point is the earlier discussion on IT professionals vs freshly graduated students. The latter are the IT professional of tomorrow. And the things they are tought nowadays is pretty amazing and quite adequate. The only thing they are lacking is experience. Now, where does that comes from if they never get a chance? (perhaps in favour of experienced IT professionals who do their stuff the 'old' way). With the help and guidance of an experienced IT professional it does not take long to get them on the right track. You can well argue that it is a shame to lose IT professionals to overseas places for whatever reason. However, I strongly believe that we need to nurture the next generation of IT professionals unless we are willing to cope with generation 'gaps' in the profession. Or do you prefer that the newly graduated go overseas, become IT professionals with salaray expectations which prohibit them even to think about coming back to NZ?
I join you in the hope that more people might join in the discussion. Perhaps it is worthwhile to have a seminar, or rather discussion session, at the forum about these topics.
Cheers
Jens
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