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Fra: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] På vegne af Asher Baker Sendt: 12. marts 2014 16:29 Til: [email protected] Emne: Re: [Csgo_servers] Lag compensation is punishing low-pingers? You can't, it's correct, nothing you could have done in those 60ms could have kept you alive, you were already dead. No one is at any advantage or disadvantage, the whole point of lag compensation is that everyone has an equal chance (within bounds) to kill other players, the drawback is that you may not realise you were killed for a while. This doesn't change the fact you /were/ killed at that time, if the other player also had a very low ping, you *would still have been killed at the exact same time*, your client would have just realised it faster. ~~~~~ "Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve." - Edward Lear On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Jermin Hu <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Well, if its the server who controls the game world, high pingers still receive an advantage. Lets say the lerp 1000 ms for both clients and the server tick is 50, which means the server sends out a packet every 20 ms. The clients cl_updaterate is also 50, which means the clients send out a packet every 20 ms Lets redo the above example. My ping is 5 and my opponents is 45. At 1000 the server sends out a processed packet, where I have been running from south to north for a long time and my opponent is aiming at me. At 1045, my opponent receives the packet. His client then rendered what happened at 945 ms using the packets it just received and the packets it received at 1005 and 1025. At 1045, my opponent killed me with his AWP. Then his client sends a packet containing this command to the server at 1060. It arrives at 1105. Then the server compares where I was at 945. Because the interpolation on his client is perfect, the server confirms the kill. At 1120, the server sends out the packet containing the confirmation to my client. And it arrives at 1105. My client is trying to render what happened at 1005 according to the last 3 packets I received at 1105 (containing what happened at 945), 1085 (containing what happened at 925) and 1065 (containing what happened at 905). And guess what? The packet says I was already dead at 945. So even after I ran behind the crate in this 60 ms, I was still killed. Thats should be the correct explanation for what really happened in my server. So please tell me how I can avoid being killed 60 ms ago? Regards, From: Netshroud <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:27 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] Lag compensation is punishing low-pingers? In the lag compensation mechanism, the high-ping players dictates the game world, not the low-ping players. Actually, the server controls the game mode. The lag compensation mechanism rewinds time for players of all ping so that what they see on their screen is what theyre interacting with. When you shoot a player, even if you have 5ms lag time, the server goes and rewrites history so that what you shoot is what you were aiming at. When a player with 300ms lag does the same thing, the server rewrites history (just more history) too. Theres no advantage or disadvantage to be had depending on your ping - in fact without lag compensation, players with high ping would be severely disadvantaged. Whats happening with lag compensation is not that you were sentenced to death 100ms ago, but rather you were running for 100ms based on a prediction that turned out to be false - the prediction that nobody killed you in that time. Your death is retroactive. On 12 Mar 2014, at 8:54 am, Jermin Hu <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Of course low pingers have a disadvantage. In the lag compensation mechanism, the high-ping players dictates the game world, not the low-ping players. Thats why my opponent only need to focus on whats happening the screen. If he hits me on his screen, the server would think he hit me. My game world doesnt have the final say, because if it is, I shouldnt die after I run behind the crate. Lets say the server time now is 100 (unit: ms). Lets assume itt takes no time for server to process the received packets. That means when the server receives a packet, it can immediately send out the packet containing the processed game world to both players. And both players game client can render the received packet right away. My ping is 5 and my opponents is 45. At 100 the server sends out a processed packet, where I have been running from south to north for 10 ms and my opponent is aiming at me. At 145, my opponent receives the package, his game client uses the packet containing data of what I was doing at 95 to interpolate (predict) where I should be rendered on his screen at 145. If I suddenly stopped and started running reversely at 96, his client is unable to correctly predict it, because the packet he received only contains what I was doing at 95 (100-5). His client still thinks that I am running to north. After he hit me on his screen, his client sends the packet containing this information to the server. It arrives at 190, and the server processes and conforms the kill. Then it takes another 5 for the processed packet to reach my computer. At this time (195), I actually have been running south for 99 ms. But in the packet the server sent to me, I am already dead. That is I have been sentenced to death 100 ms ago. The running I have been doing for 100 ms is in vain. What a big error! Keep in mind this doesnt include server processing time and client rendering time yet. And 45 is really not a high ping in my server. This is what really happened when I get killed after I run behind the crate. If low pingers have the final say, it would be the high pingers who suffer this frustration. P.S. I have tried turning off sv_unlag. It turned out to be a bigger mess. Players can hardly hit each other when moving. P.P.S. About the calculation of the theoretical max ping. We all know light can travels around the earth 7.5 times in one second. That means every round takes about 1/7.5 = 0.1333 seconds = 133.3 ms. The ping shown in net_graph too is round trip delay. Thats the time taken by a packet to travels to the target computer and back. Best regards, From: Moritz <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:15 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Csgo_servers] Lag compensation is punishing low-pingers? Hey, you're always stating that you have a disadvantage. It is not a disadvantage since your enemy has (like you) no control how you are seen on his the screen, and no control how he is seen on your screen. Also, saying you have a disadvantage implies that he has an advantage, witch is false. He has the same window of time than you when anyone peeks, which is what I would consider fair. "I think that as a person who provides (high-quality) servers for the community for free, I shouldnt receive an disadvantage when playing in my own server." Let's exaggerate that: "On my own server I should be allowed to cheat, since there could be chaters that could have an advantage". I'm wondering why should you (or anyone) should have any advantage on your server? In a fair game, no one has an advantage. Now, I can just repeat what I just said: Since nobody has an advantage (It isn't easier for the high-ping-player to hit you!) you don't have any disadvantage. If you really want to fix this, use sv_unlag, but please notify players about this behavior, because it directly affects gameplay. If you think: "People that are closer to the Datacenter should be harder to hit" then you can enable this. I still advice against it. Best regards, _____ _______________________________________________ Csgo_servers mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers _______________________________________________ Csgo_servers mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers _____ _______________________________________________ Csgo_servers mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers _______________________________________________ Csgo_servers mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/csgo_servers
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