Hey,
I don't think we will come to a conclusion here. We all presented you
our view, and explained you how we think it works.
Even in my first answer, I sent you the commands with that you can
control the lag compensation. I also said you why I wouldn't do that
(because you can't hit moving players)
And now, gues what happend? You used then, and surprisingly you can't
hit moving players! Even I made correct predictions (and you made wrong
predictions by saying turning off lag compesation would fix something)
you still seem to correct me and everyone else on the playing list.
Since you don't believe us, and think to know better, I will once again
sent you the link to the Valve-Developer Wiki. There you can look
anything up, what you want to know.
But by now, I am leaving this discussion since you don't seem to be able
to agree with us. And since I think that I am right, I won't change my
opinion until I see a server that don't "punishes" low-ping players, or
anyone can explain why it should be changes. Appeartly, your
explaination is not enough for me. I for myself are not a Game-Developer
(I am a professional developer though) and I talked to some other people
who confirm that my view is right, so I am pretty certain I am not
completly wrong.
So here is the link to the wiki I talked about, with all the commands
you could dream of:
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Lag_compensation
Maybe the command sv_maxunlag will help you. Set it to something low
like .05, then only players with a ping < 50 profit from lag
comensation. But this would be plain unfair and should be told in the
server-title (hostname).
/If this doesn't work, try putting "_restart" in your server.cfg, this
would be the last resort if you don't want to play on "such servers". It
will fix the problem, there will be no "unfair" interpolation anymore.
/(Keep in mind that there will be no more game, but who cares? If I
don't win, I blame the server!)
And an article that might help you understanding the topic:
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking
Please keep in mind that this is the official wiki, so almost every info
there is correct and not debateable.
Best regards,
Flai
Am 13.03.2014 14:27, schrieb Jermin Hu:
- The lag compensation mechanism rewinds time for players of all
ping so that what they see on their screen is what they're
interacting with
After some ratiocination, I have to say what you say is wrong.
If both clients are rewound by 100 ms. Then the server's game world is
also rewound by 100 ms than the real server time. This is eventually
same with the situation without rewind. The player who has a high
latency when rewind is disabled would also has a high latency when
rewind is enabled. The game world is just delayed for 100ms.
Everything is happening as it originally should.
Further more, I have never seen an official document from Valve
stating that all players connected to a server are rewound by the same
amount of time.
In conclusion, lag compensation is in favor of high ping players.
Regards,
*From:* Netshroud <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 1:27 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [Csgo_servers] Lag compensation is punishing low-pingers?
In the lag compensation mechanism, the high-ping players dictates the
game world, not the low-ping players.
Actually, the server controls the game mode. The lag compensation
mechanism rewinds time for players of all ping so that what they see
on their screen is what they're interacting with. When you shoot a
player, even if you have 5ms lag time, the server goes and rewrites
history so that what you shoot is what you were aiming at. When a
player with 300ms lag does the same thing, the server rewrites history
(just more history) too.
There's no advantage or disadvantage to be had depending on your ping
- in fact without lag compensation, players with high ping would be
severely disadvantaged. What's happening with lag compensation is not
that you were sentenced to death 100ms ago, but rather you were
running for 100ms based on a prediction that turned out to be false -
the prediction that nobody killed you in that time. Your death is
retroactive.
On 12 Mar 2014, at 8:54 am, Jermin Hu <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Of course low pingers have a disadvantage. In the lag compensation
mechanism, the high-ping players dictates the game world, not the
low-ping players. That's why my opponent only need to focus on what's
happening the screen. If he hits me on his screen, the server would
think he hit me.
My game world doesn't have the final say, because if it is, I
shouldn't die after I run behind the crate.
Let's say the server time now is 100 (unit: ms). Let's assume itt
takes no time for server to process the received packets. That means
when the server receives a packet, it can immediately send out the
packet containing the processed game world to both players. And both
players' game client can render the received packet right away.
My ping is 5 and my opponent's is 45. At 100 the server sends out a
processed packet, where I have been running from south to north for
10 ms and my opponent is aiming at me. At 145, my opponent receives
the package, his game client uses the packet containing data of what
I was doing at 95 to interpolate (predict) where I should be rendered
on his screen at 145.
If I suddenly stopped and started running reversely at 96, his client
is unable to correctly predict it, because the packet he received
only contains what I was doing at 95 (100-5). His client still thinks
that I am running to north. After he hit me on his screen, his client
sends the packet containing this information to the server. It
arrives at 190, and the server processes and conforms the kill. Then
it takes another 5 for the processed packet to reach my computer. At
this time (195), I actually have been running south for 99 ms. But in
the packet the server sent to me, I am already dead. That is I have
been sentenced to death 100 ms ago. The running I have been doing for
100 ms is in vain.
What a big error! Keep in mind this doesn't include server processing
time and client rendering time yet. And 45 is really not a high ping
in my server.
This is what really happened when I get killed after I run behind the
crate.
If low pingers have the final say, it would be the high pingers who
suffer this frustration.
P.S. I have tried turning off sv_unlag. It turned out to be a bigger
mess. Players can hardly hit each other when moving.
P.P.S. About the calculation of the theoretical max ping. We all know
light can travels around the earth 7.5 times in one second. That
means every round takes about 1/7.5 = 0.1333 seconds = 133.3 ms. The
ping shown in net_graph too is round trip delay. That's the time
taken by a packet to travels to the target computer and back.
Best regards,
*From:* Moritz <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 12, 2014 3:15 AM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [Csgo_servers] Lag compensation is punishing low-pingers?
Hey,
you're always stating that you have a disadvantage. It is not a
disadvantage since your enemy has (like you) no control how you are
seen on his the screen, and no control how he is seen on your screen.
Also, saying you have a disadvantage implies that he has an
advantage, witch is false. He has the same window of time than you
when anyone peeks, which is what I would consider fair.
"I think that as a person who provides (high-quality) servers for the
community for free, I shouldn't receive an disadvantage when playing
in my own server."
Let's exaggerate that: "On my own server I should be allowed to
cheat, since there could be chaters that could have an advantage".
I'm wondering why should you (or anyone) should have any advantage on
your server? In a fair game, /no one /has an advantage.
Now, I can just repeat what I just said: Since nobody has an
advantage (It isn't easier for the high-ping-player to hit you!) you
don't have any disadvantage.
If you really want to fix this, use sv_unlag, but please notify
players about this behavior, because it directly affects gameplay.
If you think: "People that are closer to the Datacenter should be
harder to hit" then you can enable this.
I still advice against it.
Best regards,
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