Dear all, On the specific question of the October 1941 deportations from Radautz/Rădăuții, the account in Radu Ioanid, "The Holocaust in Romania", p, 296 states, “...the 8,000 Jews in Rădăuți were deported in four transports of about 2,000 Jews each between October 12 and 14 (the trains were numbered K3501 through K3504). There were at least four suicides among the deportees.’
Footnote 352 references: USHMM/COA/RG 31.006M, roll 5, fond 307, opis 3, vol. 10. The next page, Ionid quotes Ruth Guttmann (b, 1933 in Rădăuți "and deported from there”, who left on the third train, with cattle wagons. Like many of the deportees she crossed the Dniester in Attachi, (Octaci, Ataky?) which Ionid describes as hell on earth. She spent the night under harsh conditions in a large warehouse, and in the morning, barges took the survivors across the Dniester. (Reference is to Vakulovski, Holocaust evreilor romani, pp 145-49z)/ Does anyone know what the prefix “K” refers to on those four train numbers? Was that a designation used by the Căile Ferate Române? thanks, Mark Mark Auslander Concord, MA > On Dec 23, 2022, at 12:52 PM, Benjamin Grilj <b.gr...@perspectiveast.com> > wrote: > > Dear all, > as far I see it in the letters I‘ve transcribed for ‚Schwarze Milch‘ there > are several types of deportations: train, cow-caddles, foot and mixtypes, > like some people who were forced by the northern train-station from > Czernowitz to Chotin and then they had to walk, even through the Dniestr. > Best, Benjamin > > send by my iPhone > >> Am 23.12.2022 um 18:35 schrieb Miriam Taylor <mirtaylo...@gmail.com>: >> >> >> Hello all, >> In answer to Miriam Suss, about who were driven (by "driven" I mean >> the German word "Getrieben" or the English "chased") to Transnistria >> on foot and who were deported there by train: From Czernowitz itself >> people were deported by train. One of my aunts was on the train >> with my grandmother and two other aunts. The train stood at the station >> For a long time. This aunt, Clara Reifer, needed to use the toilet, >> Got off the train to use the toilet at the station. Wile she was in the >> toilet >> The train started moving and because she had had polio as a child, >> She limped and could not run fast, the train left the station with her >> mother >> and two sisters. She was able to find out where we were living >> And spent the rest of the war years with my parents and me. >> My relatives from Sniyatin and Zastavna were driven to Transnistria >> On foot. Babies and small children often died on the way. >> But many young adults survived, had more children after the war >> And their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren now mostly >> Live is Israel. >> Mimi >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Dec 23, 2022, at 7:16 AM, Miriam Suss <ms...@bigpond.net.au >> <mailto:ms...@bigpond.net.au>> wrote: >> >>> Hello all >>> It interests me that some deportees were sent to Transnistria by train >>> whereas my family was driven there by foot with a few wheelbarrows and >>> decrepit carts for the infirm. >>> Does anyone have any historical information about the rationale for this >>> difference? Was it timing or some other reason? >>> My family was forced to leave Czernowitz in October 1942. >>> >>> Miriam Suss >>> Email: ms...@bigpond.net.au <mailto:ms...@bigpond.net.au> >>> Melbourne Australia >>> >>>> On 23 Dec 2022, at 6:42 am, Maurice Linker <link...@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:link...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi all >>>> I doubt any of these luxuries would have been provided by the Rumanian >>>> guards >>>> >>>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >>>> From: Maurice Linker <link...@gmail.com <mailto:link...@gmail.com>> >>>> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2022 3:39:31 PM >>>> To: Mark Auslander <markauslan...@icloud.com >>>> <mailto:markauslan...@icloud.com>>; czernowit...@cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu> <czernowit...@cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu>> >>>> Subject: Re: [czernowitz-l] Deportation tain stories? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >>>> From: bounce-127055246-63807...@list.cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:bounce-127055246-63807...@list.cornell.edu> >>>> <bounce-127055246-63807...@list.cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:bounce-127055246-63807...@list.cornell.edu>> on behalf of Mark >>>> Auslander <markauslan...@icloud.com <mailto:markauslan...@icloud.com>> >>>> Sent: Friday, December 23, 2022 10:02:08 AM >>>> To: czernowit...@cornell.edu <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu> >>>> <czernowit...@cornell.edu <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu>> >>>> Subject: [czernowitz-l] Deportation tain stories? >>>> >>>> Friends, >>>> >>>> Might I ask, as terrible as these stories are, if there are any accounts >>>> or memories of what actually took place inside the trains (evidently, >>>> cattle cars) used to transport people from Bukovina into Transnistria in >>>> the Fall of 1941? >>>> >>>> My cousin Jonathan Pagis (whose father Severin [Dan] Pagis travelled on >>>> the train with his grandparents, my great grandparents Isak and Clara >>>> Auslander) shared a story from a Radautz survivor, that her mother told >>>> her and her sisters to get to the train early (this would have been around >>>> 10 October 1941) to place down clean linens on the floorboards, so the >>>> family could travel comfortably—with no intimations of the horrors to >>>> come, >>>> >>>> Cousin Dan himself to my knowledge never spoke directly as to what >>>> occurred on board the train heading to Moghilev, although this is the >>>> subject of one of his most famous poems. >>>> >>>> We are of course familiar with accounts of other Holocaust trains, some of >>>> which evidently had military snipers on board shooting at escapees. Did >>>> anything like that happen in Bukovina? I assume no food or water was >>>> provided for those in the trains, which were presumably without heat. >>>> >>>> And has the Caile Ferate Romane ever issued an apology for its complicity >>>> in the deporations? >>>> >>>> sending warmest regards to all on the list, >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> Mark Auslander >>>> >>>> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject >>>> of >>>> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions >>>> expressed >>>> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not >>>> necessarily >>>> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members >>>> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has >>>> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com >>>> <http://czernowitz.ehpes.com/> that includes a >>>> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in >>>> 2021, >>>> archived messages can be found at: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/ >>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/> >>>> To send mail to the list, address it to <czernowit...@cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu>>. >>>> >>>> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions >>>> <https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris>. >>>> >>>> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: >>>> owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu> >>>> >>>> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject >>>> of >>>> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions >>>> expressed >>>> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not >>>> necessarily >>>> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members >>>> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has >>>> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com >>>> <http://czernowitz.ehpes.com/> that includes a >>>> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in >>>> 2021, >>>> archived messages can be found at: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/ >>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/> >>>> To send mail to the list, address it to <czernowit...@cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu>>. >>>> >>>> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions >>>> <https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris>. >>>> >>>> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: >>>> owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu >>>> <mailto:owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu> >>>> >>> >>> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject >>> of >>> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions >>> expressed >>> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not >>> necessarily >>> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members >>> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has >>> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com >>> <http://czernowitz.ehpes.com/> that includes a >>> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in >>> 2021, >>> archived messages can be found at: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/ >>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/> >>> To send mail to the list, address it to <czernowit...@cornell.edu >>> <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu>>. >>> >>> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions >>> <https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris>. >>> >>> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: >>> owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu >>> <mailto:owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu> >>> >> >> This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject >> of >> Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed >> in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not >> necessarily >> the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members >> or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has >> an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com >> <http://czernowitz.ehpes.com/> that includes a >> searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in 2021, >> archived messages can be found at: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/ >> <https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/> >> To send mail to the list, address it to <czernowit...@cornell.edu >> <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu>>. >> >> To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions >> <https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris>. >> >> To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: >> owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu >> <mailto:owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu> >> > > This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of > > Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed > in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not > necessarily > the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members > or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has > an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com > <http://czernowitz.ehpes.com/> that includes a > searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in 2021, > archived messages can be found at: > https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/ > <https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/> > To send mail to the list, address it to <czernowit...@cornell.edu > <mailto:czernowit...@cornell.edu>>. > > To remove your address from this e-list follow these directions > <https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris>. > > To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: > owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu > <mailto:owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu> > ******************************************************************************* This moderated discussion group is for information exchange on the subject of Czernowitz and Sadagora Jewish History and Genealogy. The opinions expressed in these posts are the opinions of the original poster only and not necessarily the opinions of the List Owner, the Webmaster or any other members or entities connected with this mailing list. The Czernowitz-L list has an associated web site at http://czernowitz.ehpes.com that includes a searchable archive of all messages posted to this list. Beginning in 2021, archived messages can be found at: https://www.mail-archive.com/czernowitz-l@list.cornell.edu/ To send mail to the list, address it to <czernowit...@cornell.edu>. To remove your address from this e-list follow the directions at https://it.cornell.edu/lyris/leave-e-lists-lyris To receive assistance for this e-list send an e-mail message to: owner-czernowit...@list.cornell.edu -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
