Hope my email gets through. I have invested time learning RGB Filmic and it is 
very good at cature the maximum dynamic range. I find when I finish with RGB 
Filmic I need to use the tone curve to just push up the contrast a little. 
However, unless I can create a reliable preset (not sure if I could) I would 
not want to have to use Filmic on every image. I like the way RawTherapee 
references the embedded JPEG to replicate what the camera would produce. I even 
tested Lightroom, Darktable and Rawtherapee with a Nikon Raw file where 
D-lighting has been applied in camera to brighten the shadows. RawTherapee was 
the only one that factored in the D-Lighting change.

I would like to use some preset base curves for my average shots that do not 
require Filmic. I will probably invest some time and create some styles for 
various genre of images such as Sunny Day Landscape, Overcast Sky Landscape, 
Portraits etc. That being said Filmic is a great tool but not for everyday 
images.

Dr Terry Pinfold
Cytometry & Histology Lab Manager
University of Tasmania
17 Liverpool St, Hobart, 7000
Ph 6226 4846 or 0408 699053
________________________________
From: Viktors Krasovskis <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, 14 January 2020 11:35 PM
To: Remco Viëtor <[email protected]>
Cc: Darktable-users list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [darktable-user] Base curve and white balance issue with DT 3.0

Hi Remco. I understand the Darktable developers point to push the ultimate raw 
interpretation and introduce raw processing workflow that squeezes out most 
data into richer result. It's cool and makes sense in theory or if you don't 
shoot a lot and have time to develop the raw files. I don't know how Sony 
renders it's JPEGs, though Nikon, Fuji and Canon do the job quite well in terms 
to provide universal preview for many scene types. When photographer takes 
pictures he checks the result in EVF or on camera's display and makes the 
exposure, light, subject and scene adjustments by the JPEG preview. After some 
practice the photographer learns to know his camera and it's possible to 
predict by JPEG preview how far we can go with under/overexposing the image. If 
I do some shooting on location where I often change the lighting proportions in 
my photos then it's a pain to adjust filmic RGB module sliders for each 
pictures because they all are so different. Well and the filmic presets do not 
help much. Ok, I try to process each image with filmic not looking to camera 
JPEGs to be unbiased in my editing. And later, when i compare the results with 
camera JPEGs I see that JPEGs look more natural and more richer in shadows and 
middle tones, the skin tones are just right in most pictures by default and I 
could fix the others just by adjusting the white balance. Maybe sometimes the 
camera JPEGs are less saturated, underexposed or have shifted white balance. 
But that's easy to fix in DT 2.6.x since the RAW rendering starting point is 
close to the camera JPEG and represents the preview which I created on the 
field with my adjustments. Now the DT 3.0 brakes this solid workflow, I can't 
rely on my camera's preview while shooting because now I know that the starting 
point on darktable will look different. That's why I downgraded back to 2.6.x. 
DT 2.6.x is a great tool and I'm afraid that the development of this version 
will phase out and it won't get new camera support, new modules and bugfixes.
Darktable 3.0 would be a fantastic tool if it would allow the users to choose 
between the classic and advanced workflows. That would speed up editing where 
camera manufacturer raw interpretation worked well and for more complicated 
cases filmic RGB module would be a nice help for experienced users. Most users 
in most cases need that their raw files are rendered well enough and the 
rendering should be predictive. Only geeks and some others (the minority) needs 
the ultimate raw rendering which takes more time and in practice is less 
universal. Filmic RGB is great for landscapes and architecture where the 
camera's dynamic range is on it's limits, however Nikon base curve presents 
give far better results on human portraits on DT 2.6.x by default. What do 
others think and do they have similar experience?

вт, 14 янв. 2020 г. в 12:49, Remco Viëtor 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>:
On lundi 13 janvier 2020 15:28:04 CET Timur Irikovich Davletshin wrote:
> Hi Viktors,
>
> There are two problems in your case:
>
> 1. Nikon-like alternative basecurve turned just Nikon-like.
> 2. New color preservation settings which messed highlights and colors.
>
> First issue: I had similar problem in the past. I believe there was
> problem with Exif interpretation. E.g. image information used to show
> Nikon d7100 but now it shows NIKON D7100. Can you try to reimport some
> file and check it in image information?
>
> Second issue: I addressed it in the past
> https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/3693<https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/3693>
>  and
> https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/3677<https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/3677>
>  — so nothing to
> do.
>
> Timur.
>
> On Sun, 2020-01-12 at 13:04 +0200, Viktors Krasovskis wrote:
> > Hi. The DT 3.0 is nice. However I noticed a serious problem when
> > working with my Nikon D7200 RAW files. The DT 2.6.2 version I was
> > using did automatically apply the D7200 base curve preset and the
> > initial rendering of the RAW file looked quite similar to camera's
> > JPEG file (tones, saturation, white balance and the exposure). It was
> > a good starting point for my editing. Now the DT 3.0 applies a wrong
> > base curve preset (nikon like) and when I choose the D7200 base curve
> > preset then the images looks desaturated, underexposed and less
> > detailed. I tried to fix this with the exposure, white balance,
> > saturation and contrast sliders and I still can't get a similar look
> > like in camera's JPEG, the skin tones look weird, the shadows are too
> > dark, bet when I raise them I loose contrast. In other words the
> > colors are not so natural like the were rendered in DT 2.6.2. I've
> > also tried the filmic RGB module (with the base curve and without),
> > still can't adjust the image better as it was done by default in DT
> > 2.6.2. What I'm doing wrong? Is it a bug? I can provide my Nikon RAW
> > and JPEG files to compare.
> >

One thing to keep in mind: the basecurves give *one* interpretation of the raw
data, not *the* interpretation.

And while it provides an easy starting point, there are disadvantages: I
noticed that in my case, the automatically selected curve (Sony-like) threw
away about 1 stop in the highlights. And there are more basecurves that behave
that way.

So following the camera maker's taste has its issues...

Remco



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Ar cieņu, Viktors Krasovskis
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