-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Manoj Srivastava wrote: > On Mon, Nov 10 2008, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: > >> On Sun, 9 Nov 2008 19:27:59 +0100 Robert Millan wrote: >> >>> I think you're trying to imply that somehow SC #1 >>> and SC #4 are not consistent. That is, that "our priorities are our users" >>> is incompatible with our system being "100% free". >> They are incompatible. As noted in the thread on debian-devel [1], even >> debian's own servers won't run debian any more, because they require >> non-debian firmware. > > The kernel is not the OS. That is why it is Debian GNU?Linux,
GNU Software + the kernel = the OS [*]. GNU alone is not an OS, the kernel alone is not an OS. But without a working kernel (including network) it won't be possible to download the non-free blobs necessary to install or run the OS. (Assuming that there are people out there with just one computer, those people will need a whole non-free OS apart from debian just in order to be able to download the firmware and install debian in the first place (debian lacking the network card's firmware). A whole non-free OS just to compensate for the removal of some small binary blobs from d-i media!). > not just Linux. And if the firmware is removed, but the re free > drviers remain, and we can get the non-free blobs from elsewhere, it > will just be Debian + non-free blobs. Why that distinction? If I add a non-free blob to a debian kernel it is no longer a debian kernel. Hence: If I add a non-free blob to a computer running debian it won't run debian any more. If you insist that "Debian is 100% free", then a computer that is _running_ non-free code (opposed to having non-free data as well) is not running debian. > Frankly, just because I do nt ever use official kernels, and I > use nvidia drivers, has not led me to conclude I do not run > Debian. That sound bite seems like hyperbole to me, and weakens your > argument. Well, if you modify the code of your web browser you're not running mozilla any more. So by analogy, if you modify the core of your OS you are not running debian. I have never concluded that I haven't run debian, just because my wireless requires some firmware (I use debian's stock kernel). Other parts of my computer also run on sourceless software (bios, etc. also the software that presumably runs inside my monitor...). However, some others have concluded that those blobs are to be removed from debian, hence I won't run debian any longer. If you disagree with this, where exactly do you draw the line between a computer running debian and a computer running a different distribution? (Debian, ubuntu, debian software + red hat kernel, etc.) For the archives and installation media 100% is 100%. How much is 100% debian on a computer? Is 50% enough or is 3:1 a better rule? (I would draw a different distinction: software that runs on the computer as opposed to software that runs on peripherials, but debian has decided on a different criterium). It's all a bit too much of hair splitting, I admit. But it was the hair splitting of others that moved the firmware out of debian. So please include the non-free firmware in debian and in the installer and amend the SC as necessary. Johannes [*] from http://www.debian.org/intro/about > WHAT is Debian? [...] > At the core of an operating system is the kernel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkkYZSsACgkQC1NzPRl9qEVqqACfUDGibH6+bpCayAc7SRAOVLH0 xUkAn0wOd3681SkaBLvUyvNoDosfYUV8 =jHaR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
