I quite agree with Dave - Tidelift should not be any different and should be treated exactly the same as anyone else.
I really think what ASF could do is to (and this is how I understand Roman's proposal): * clarify the rules and limits (so that companies like Tidelift - or Google, or AWS or whoever else knows what to expect and how to adjust their expectations (i.e not approaching the ASF and PMC but approaching individuals instead, not expecting PMC to endorse the company) * help individual contributors - for example by providing them with "compatible" or "example" rules and expectations that the contracts with individuals can have * make it clear that such practices are OK and somewhat promote/endorse it (in the sense of laying out transparent, easy to find and refer-to rules above) - also that would give some of the contributors a courage to discuss and reach out themselves, they might not even be aware that they can ask to be paid and what the rules are. I think currently many of the contributors and stakeholders simply do not know that there are some limits and rules and we can simply continue having companies like Tidelift approaching ASF and attempting to convince ASF over and over to something that is not compatible with the ASF rules - simply because they do not know. J. On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 8:41 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> wrote: > Just thinking out loud ... > > The ASF could never be an entity that people could come to looking for > commercial support. > That would just be in conflict with being a non-profit charitable > organization. > > However, we also have this discussion about the endowment from the pinaple > funds donation. > How about having the ASF as it is, was and hopefully will always be, and a > second entity that people could come to for commercial support. > In contrast to the usual external companies, the board of this entity > could be linked to the board of the ASF? > This would ensure that the company is run in line with the values of the > ASF. > > Please tell me if this is just complete nonsense ;-) > > Chris > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> > Sent: Donnerstag, 3. März 2022 07:33 > To: dev@community.apache.org > Subject: Re: Effective ways of getting individuals funded to work on ASF > projects > > We can’t know the motivations of anyone funding a “tidelift” effort. > > And we have trademarks / brand to help deal with misnamed vendor product. > > PMCs have the same guarantees with vendors and funders - none. > > Do we need a clearer statement about participation as individuals? > > Do we need clarification about how a PMC can ask for help? > > Trying to keep it simple. > > All the best, > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Mar 2, 2022, at 10:20 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> > wrote: > > > > My experience with vendors that employee people to work on ASF > > projects is that they have their own internal processes that are > > separate from the ASF’s. For example, as part of their product they > > might deliver Apache Foo for Acme Bar. The version they ship might not > exactly match what the ASF distributes. > > > > Tidelift doesn’t deliver a product so has no way to achieve this. > > > > That said, Tidelift certainly could provide resources to run the > > processes they deem necessary and get the folks they are paying to > > execute those. But any issues that are found would have to be resolved > in the project, not in something Tidelift distributes. > > > > Ralph > > > > > > > >> On Mar 2, 2022, at 6:10 PM, Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> > >> The way this discussion is going makes me want to ask why should > tidelift be any different from a vendor that pays individuals to work on > ASF projects as part of their employment? > >> > >> The same neutrality ought to apply. Why do we need to make a new > classification? > >> > >> All the best, > >> Dave > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>>> On Mar 2, 2022, at 4:31 PM, Willem Jiang <willem.ji...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > >>> +1. > >>> It will make the maintainer's life easier with this collected > information. > >>> When we bring the commercial support to the ASF project daily > >>> development, we still need to follow certain rules to avoid the > >>> conflict with the Apache way we believed. > >>> > >>> Willem Jiang > >>> > >>> Twitter: willemjiang > >>> Weibo: 姜宁willem > >>> > >>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 1:08 AM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Roman for the initiative. +1 on it. > >>>> > >>>> I think this might allow us to focus on what we (ASF) think is > >>>> really important and needed by the individuals who work on ASF > >>>> projects, and set our boundaries and limits their individual > >>>> approach as well as clear limits and boundaries for the > >>>> organisations that would like to apply - and then let any entity who > wants to help to see how they can fit-in. > >>>> > >>>> Happy to help with hashing it out. > >>>> > >>>> J. > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 3:30 PM Bertrand Delacretaz > >>>> <bdelacre...@apache.org> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> Le mer. 2 mars 2022 à 15:19, Roman Shaposhnik > >>>>> <ro...@shaposhnik.org> a écrit : > >>>>>> ...Once we've collected that type of info -- we can then sort of > >>>>> "evaluate > >>>>>> vendors" against that list and see what they are missing, etc. We > >>>>>> can even issue a wide "call to apply" for various companies if we > >>>>>> feel like > >>>>> it... > >>>>> > >>>>> +1, I like the idea! > >>>>> > >>>>> -Bertrand > >>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>> --- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >>> > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
