On Thu, Mar 10, 2005 at 08:43:26AM +1000, Alex Fisher wrote: > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 00:20, Alex Thurgood wrote: > > Le mardi 08 mars 2005 � 22:19 +0100, Christian Lohmaier a �crit : > > > > > > - why can't I choose graphically where to install > > > > OpenOffice.org like > > > > I used to be able to do ? > > > > > > Because now you can install OOo like every other package. If you want a > > > graphical interface, use a GUI for RPM. > > None of which are adequate for relocating packages, nor can most be used for > executing "rpm -i --nodeps <package>".
The only requirements of the OOo packages is /bin/sh (and other OOo packages) there will be no reason to force the install using nodeps. Although the GUIs don't have a switch to use nodeps, they will usually ask something like "Dependencies for package not met. Continue anyway?" > the old KDE kpackage utility was good > there, but it seems to have been dropped in favour of gurpmi and Mandrake's > rpmdrake, both of which are merely front ends to urpmi. (Kpackage was a front > end to rpm.) Neither of these graphical front ends allows one to set any of > the options such as --nodeps or a different install location. So? Not using the default locations is something that the casual user (the clueless ones) won't do. If you don't install your other software into custom locations, why would you make an exception for OOo? > > I'm sorry, but I disagree. Your anwser is like saying : here hapless > > child, I gave you a cake with a cherry and cream on it in Version 1.x.x, > > and now for Version 2, which I've trumpeted as a super-duper improved > > cherry cake, there isn't going to be any cream or even any cherry.. > > Which cake would I rather have ? > > > > > > - how can I choose which filters to install when I use the RPMs > > > > ? > > > > > > Simply don't install/install the xsltfilters package. > > And what if one needs only *one* of those filters? You are constructing weired scenarios. Why would you only install one single filter? How many users do you know who did not install filters? (I'd love to hear the reasons for not installing the filters as well) > this answer is not good, > since the method requires an "all or nothing" approach. And be honest: How many (clueless) users will choose not to install the filters? > > > > - where's the customized setup installation gone ? > > Still there in Windows, but not in Linux. The older tarball installer was > superior in that respect. And the reason there is no longer any "Custom" > option is plain... it is purely *because of* the RPM based packaging. > > Make RPM packages available by all means, but there needs to be a tarball > (better yet, a self-extracting one) so that those who wish to may do a custom > installation... [...] First define what you mean by custom installation. > > > The customized setup has been obsoleted by different packages. Only > > > install those components you like to have installed. This is pretty much > > > the same as with the old setup. > > No it isn't... I have no idea, based on either the names or descriptions, > which packages do what. Some sort of pre-selection script is needed... > > Example: If I decide I don't want to install Base, but do want Calc and > Writer, which packages do I install? Simply install the base package and rpm will tell you what it needs. If not, then it is a bug in the package. > Obviously there are the Writer and Calc > RPMs, but what about the *core* RPMs? Which of them do I install? Well "core" suggest that these are the basis for OOo - you'll probably need them. The reason why there are multiple packages now is to allow smaller updates. (But not sure whether the split will stay) > and in what > order? (And don't just say "urpmi will do that for you" because it doesn't > always work correctly). It will. If not it is a bug. But for OOo it doesn't matter. You can choose whatever order you like. The dependencies are runtime dependencies. There are no dependencies during installation. > > Ah, and therein lies the crunch. "Pretty much the same" isn't "the same" > > when you live in userland. > > And userland is where we need to function. I am perfectly capable of using a > CLI (and often do), but if I'm to advise of assist the general user, I need > to know such things as the graphical toolbox, and everything needs to be > doable *from within those graphical tools*. as soon as it becomes necessary > to use a command-lint tool, you have lost an extremely large number of users. The users you are talking about will not need any of the advanced fetures and can simply select the desired packages in the GUI and install the packages. The GUI will take care of dependencies and will suggest to add the needed ones as well (at least rpmdrake and kpackage will do so. (note that the dependencies are not set correctly for the core packages in the beta) Be fair when argumenting. All the major distribution will provide OOo customized/adapted for that distribution. So most of the users will use the OOo that came with their distribution. The large number of clueless users you're talking about will not install developer snapshots. They should not install the beta either. And more important: They probably will not need nor want to do a "custom install". What is needed is a more detailed description for the packages like "Install this package if you want to do <this and that>" to ease the identification of the packages. And: The old installation required the use of a cli as well (or how did you supply the "-net" switch?) ciao Christian -- NP: Korn - One More Time --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
