I will refer to more words - “little” show, “childish”, “acquiesce” used for the community members, “Man beyond reproach” “Men of action” “princess birdie”. The last one is funny. These are phrases used by select individuals from this community in different dehumanising context.
Do we moderate/censor such comments? Is there a way ASF code of conduct violation throws such members out of this community. What is the role of Apache Code of Conduct & Diversity statement here? Gerald! In responsible communities, choice of “adjective” on a public forum on the Internet has to have a context ready relationship especially if a conversation includes sensitive content and when individuals do not have a familiar relationship of endearment. This is one of the primary factor of misinformation age of today - Bad choice of words to represent people and situation. It is always great not to use words that have both pejorative and non pejorative meanings to reduce ambiguity in what you are trying to convey or else you continue to have information leakage. If not done, this most likely increases cognitive load as you had to spend more time on the same information transfer. Most importantly when it is a bilateral or a multi lateral communication & participants are distributed in different geographies/cultural norms on this planet, you must be more sensitive and address issues with qualified statements/words/adjectives. This is a multi lingual planet. Now, thanks for the example. It’s one thing to use an adjective for yourself, you are free to call/say whatever you wish to say for yourself and it is entirely another element to specify an adjective for a fellow human being or a community. Perhaps a more respectful and inclusive approach is to discard a norm of using an adjective or use it but almost always cite it with data as you have done, and as what Kevin did later after his utterance. Capacity for Cognitive load does not get reduced by “lurking”, perhaps gets overloaded in absence of more qualified information relay. You have increased variable permutations of a multilateral communication scenario. But it’s your choice. Thanks wish you health & best regards! On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 at 12.56, Gerald O'Sullivan <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Friends and Colleagues > > I am a long-time lurker on this forum. > > Yes, I lurk. I read the emails but I don't respond. Until now. > > I use the work "lurk" deliberately, not in the dictionary sense of the > word, but in the informal sense defined here: > https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lurk. In particular, the > second definition applies to me: > > To read without commenting or contributing, therefore effectively > invisible to the rest of the group or community. Generally recommended for > joining any forum so that you can observe rules, attitudes and prominent > personalities without jumping in > <https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jumping%20in> and > breaking a rule, making an ass of yourself, or asking a question about > something obvious that you would have learned for yourself if you’d paid > attention in the first place. > > > In particular, I recognise that because I do not contribute code, or > documentation, I refrain from making unwanted contributions. I do not > consume bandwidth or create unnecessary cognitive load. > > The word "lurk" has formal and informal definitions. In the world of > software development it has a non-pejorative meaning. > > I will now return to lurking. Please continue the good work. > > Kind regards > Gerald > > > On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 at 12:20, Muellners ApS <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 at 19.59, Kevin A. McGrail <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 10:27 Muellners ApS <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Kevin! >>>> It's sad that you use words like "lurking" and "free", >>>> >>> >>> Lurking on mailing lists is a term of art. It means to read more and >>> post less. >>> >> >> Definition from Oxford Languages; >> lurking >> /ˈləːkɪŋ/ >> Learn to pronounce >> >> <https://www.google.dk/search?client=safari&hl=en-dk&q=how+to+pronounce+lurking&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAOMIfcRoyS3w8sc9YSmDSWtOXmPU4uINKMrPK81LzkwsyczPExLmYglJLcoV4pbi5GLPKS3KzsxLt2JRYkrN41nEKpGRX65Qkq9QANSSD9STqgBVAQDXsLVpWQAAAA&pron_lang=en&pron_country=gb&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji_66EvsrzAhUMjosKHYcWB4oQ3eEDegQIBBAZ> >> *adjective* >> adjective: *lurking* >> >> 1. remaining hidden so as to wait in ambush. >> "the trumpet fish is a lurking predator" >> - (of an unpleasant quality) present in a latent or barely >> discernible state, although still presenting a threat. >> "he lives with a lurking fear of exposure as a fraud" >> >> >> >>>>Why would you use this adjective for a fellow community member? Do >> you hold such feelings of threat and insecurity? Stop using wrong >> "adjectives" for your fellow beings. Perceiving threats is the first cause >> of less openness. How will you listen to newer ideas if you limit this >> human communication with wrong adjectives & then establish them as norms? >> See if you can be thoughtful. >> >>> >>> Freemail is a term of art as well for services like Yahoo, Gmail, etc >>> that provide mail services at no charge. >>> >> >>>>What to say to you on this! focus please. I am not interested in >> wasting this community's time about freemail or such statements. >> >> It is clear to me that we should of course create a healthy balance b/w >> “for profits” and “non for profits” to avoid such distortion of human >> values which was visible during this Apache Con & in Board Reports. >> >> Community events such as what happened in Afghanistan are missing, young >> talents got pushed to late night slots without wondering how power and >> internet works in Cameroon, GSoC interns are out of slot, contributors from >> different companies working hard on Fineract solutions from several parts >> of world are missing, not a single major FI that consumes the project IP >> has a keynote, false representation of a complete version of project CN >> have been running in Board reports and elsewhere until the Con. >> >> What is required are more visible inclusion & diversity principles, >> definitely not an outcome with a single "for profit" company & self >> approvals in return for a meagre pocket change calling it "sponsorship". >> That's not the way a non-profit should behave. That's not the open source >> philosophy. I am seriously appalled by this sad demonstration of >> "diversity". >> >> The current processes & norms have failed to respond to the needs for >> diversity and inclusion in real time. You are applying centralisation to a >> decentralised community of developers. Right now the governance and norms >> are selective to exploit IP generated by distributed developers without >> ever incentivizing them. >> A contrary example is imagine ASF whose public assets are distributed >> amongst its contributors, incentivizing each contribution to the project >> with money. >> In 2021, humans have a technology that can do that. >> >> *"No, We do not make blanket rules for one off problems."* >> Let's use a better word not one off "problem". This is a >> systematic event. Problems are climate change, hunger, food crisis, >> underbanked. By calling norms discussion as a problem, you are >> demonstrating a lack of willingness to change. >> This is a financial technology project that affects the lives of end >> clients and its product lifecycle management should not be exclusion >> oriented. (remember the vision is financial inclusion). >> >> Figuring out begins with realising that we were on the wrong track. >> >>Your and your colleagues and actions are clearly not those of an >> individual but an organization with differing goals and objectives from >> this foundation which you continue to post about on our forums. >> *The context is not non congruence b/w two Foundations, and in my >> opinion, you are not qualified to state this about an outside legal entity. >> Meritocracy perhaps gives you meaning to propose and move ideas on this >> list, it does not allow you to malign other philanthropic activities >> happening elsewhere. And if the objective is to shield bad practices & >> behaviour of "for profits" within the ASF ecosystem, it helps to stop such >> reasoning.* >> *Public information from another Non for profit is being shared here by >> individual contributors affiliated to Muellners Foundation. Of course the >> Foundation which is the source of credible information is going to get >> cited. **That's basic internet literacy to cite things. **"yours" and >> "ours" is a construct that you have created. It really helps if you >> establish such statements with data not perception. Try to bridge >> differences instead of creating more. * >> >> If you need my help, I can talk but see Kevin use data, public facing >> records, meaningful information, & context not wrong adjectives. You are >> demonstrating lack of understanding, & empathy with *highly* >> *speculative* statements. That's just surface analytics. It has brought >> you to a weak conclusion that you have to resort to a poor use of human >> communication of language. No human has such a right. Read very carefully >> what is going on. Not a single time, MF colleagues have named or shamed an >> individual. The process and concepts behind human actions are being >> discussed. >> >> Have a good one! 😤 >> >> >> >> >>> Regards, KAM >>> >>>> -- >> Ankit >> Managing Partner >> Muellners Inc >> >> This mail is governed by Muellners® IT policy. >> The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents >> may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from >> disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if >> this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert >> the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any >> attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents >> of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly >> prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be >> monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure >> compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails >> are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be >> intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed >> to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail. >> > > > -- > Gerald O'Sullivan > Solution Architect > Cellphone: +27 82 412 9962 > -- Ankit Managing Partner Muellners Inc This mail is governed by Muellners® IT policy. The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.
