On 14 September 2014 15:05, Philippe Mouawad <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello, > I implemented what sebb proposed in his last comment. > Documented in : > https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=54778 > > Feedback welcome. > > @Sebb, regarding the subject :-) , where can we find the Template icon ?
Somewhere in AOO SVN I assume. Sorry, no idea where. If it's not obvious, could try asking on the AOO dev list. > Thanks > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Philippe Mouawad < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:55 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On 9 September 2014 12:32, Philippe Mouawad <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:23 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> >> On 9 September 2014 09:00, Andrey Pohilko <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > Hi, >>> >> > >>> >> > My opinion on the cached sample handling: >>> >> > >>> >> > 1. Not returning sample is wrong. Once user has Sampler he expects >>> >> > sample to be generated in that place. Without a sample we will have >>> >> > questions "what's happening" from users. If we look into Firebug or >>> >> > Developer Tools, we'll see that there are "samples' for cached >>> content, >>> >> > having "from cache" as size qualifier. >>> >> > 2. Response code 204 is also wrong, it means different situation in >>> RFC. >>> >> > The response code should be one from cached response. I suppose >>> server >>> >> > can set caching headers for any of 2xx coded responses and client >>> should >>> >> > respect that. >>> >> > >>> >> > I would suggest following: >>> >> > a) return the code that were present in original cached response. >>> >> > and the response message also >>> >> > b) in case of cached response add " (cached)" string to response >>> >> > message. Response message string is not defined as required by RFC >>> and >>> >> > may contain any string in it, it is 100% informational. For example, >>> >> > original sample "200 OK" will look as "200 OK (cached)" >>> >> > c) enable this by default, no property needed since the behavior >>> is >>> >> > unambiguous >>> >> >>> >> It's a bit harder to detect the sample, which is why I was thinking >>> >> about defining a specific non-HTTP return code. >>> >> This could be done using a property to override the 200 code. >>> >> >>> >> Also JMeter does not cache the content, so the sample won't have any >>> data. >>> >> Post-Processors may need to be aware of this. >>> >> Though given that 204 status is also success, and was not excluded >>> >> previously, perhaps this is not an issue. >>> >> >>> > >>> > Not removing the sampleresults means erroneously impacting positively >>> > response time no ? >>> >>> Depends on how the response times are calculated. >>> >>> > Also regarding Andrei note on difference between browser showing 200 >>> > (cache) vs JMeter not showing it,for me main JMeter job is simulate >>> > load on server and traffic between Browser and Server, so it should not >>> > report anything for Browser internal traffic. >>> >>> I don't think there is an ideal solution to this. >>> Some people will want to see all the samples executed by JMeter, and >>> some will need to see only the external requests. >>> >>> There are probably at least 3 approaches: >>> 1) return null sample (i.e. no sample) >>> 2) return sample with status 200 and message containing "(ex cache)" or >>> similar >>> 3) return sample with a different status, chosen by the user >>> >> >> Ok let's implement it then, would it be active through property ? >> What would be the default ? >> >> >>> > Regarding caching the content, the impact on JMeter memory would be >>> huge, I >>> > doubt it scales fine. >>> >>> Does not have to be purely a memory cache; it could be disk-based (as >>> most browsers use) >>> >> I think it would be IO overkill in this case. But why not some day >> >>> >>> > >>> >> > Andrey Pokhilko >>> >> > >>> >> > On 09.09.2014 00:41, sebb wrote: >>> >> >> On 8 September 2014 21:21, Philippe Mouawad < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:08 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> On 8 September 2014 11:56, Philippe Mouawad < >>> >> [email protected]> >>> >> >>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:33 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> On 7 September 2014 19:49, Philippe Mouawad < >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> >>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:33 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> On 6 September 2014 22:44, Philippe Mouawad < >>> >> >>>> [email protected] >>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>> Hello All, >>> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> We could make a poll with 3 items: >>> >> >>>>>>>> [This should have been a new thread, and all these should be >>> >> separate >>> >> >>>>>>>> user threads] >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> 1) Ask Early users to test and give feedback on Undo/Redo >>> >> feature >>> >> >>>> in >>> >> >>>>>>>>> nightly build >>> >> >>>>>>>> +1 >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> Let me just finish the Toolbar enabling/disabling >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> 2) Make a poll on the "Template" icon ? I agree with you and >>> I >>> >> >>>> think >>> >> >>>>>> sebb >>> >> >>>>>>>>> had raised this when initially icon was a wizard. My concern >>> is >>> >> >>>> that >>> >> >>>>>>>>> current icon may not be clear or "known" in other >>> applications, >>> >> so >>> >> >>>> I >>> >> >>>>>>>> wonder >>> >> >>>>>>>>> if new user or even usual user have the idea of using it >>> >> >>>>>>>> Perhaps see if we could use the Templates icon from >>> OpenOffice? >>> >> >>>>>>>> This looks like a piece of paper with a star in the top left >>> >> corner. >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> Here's a screenshot: >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~sebb/JMeter/Templates.png >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> Nice one >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> I don't think we necessarily need a poll on this, so long as >>> we >>> >> all >>> >> >>>>>>>> agree that the new icon is better. >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> 3) Make a poll (As sebb proposed in another thread) on the >>> need >>> >> to >>> >> >>>>>> add a >>> >> >>>>>>>>> user property for bugzilla 54778, to allow users to revert >>> to < >>> >> >>>> 2.12 >>> >> >>>>>>>>> behaviour. My opinion based on previous versions behaviour is >>> >> that >>> >> >>>> we >>> >> >>>>>>>>> should introduce this , asking community may be confusing >>> >> >>>>>>>> If they are confused by the choice, won't they be confused by >>> the >>> >> >>>>>>>> change in behaviour? >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>> It will depend on how the information is presented. >>> >> >>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> What about this: >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> When using Cache Manager in JMeter. If a resource is found in >>> cache >>> >> >>>> then: >>> >> >>>>>>> - Up to version 2.11, no request hits the server and a 204 >>> response >>> >> >>>> code >>> >> >>>>>>> with empty content was returned as a SampleResult >>> >> >>>>>>> - Starting from 2.12, no request hits the server, but no more >>> >> >>>>>> SampleResult >>> >> >>>>>>> will be created (this is inline with what browser do) >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> This change will affect: >>> >> >>>>>>> - the number of Samples in results >>> >> >>>>>>> - the average, median response time reported >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> We propose 2 options to handle this: >>> >> >>>>>>> (1) Add the possibility through a JMeter property to revert >>> back >>> >> to <= >>> >> >>>>>> 2.11 >>> >> >>>>>>> behaviour >>> >> >>>>>>> (2) No JMeter property to revert back to <= 2.11 behaviour >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> Please vote depending on what would be better for you. >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> Or maybe we could use a doodle ? >>> >> >>>>>> On reflection, I agree that providing a property to select the >>> >> >>>>>> behaviour is the obvious thing to do. >>> >> >>>>>> Adding the property does not need a vote. >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> Ok >>> >> >>>>>> However, I'm not sure we should change the default. >>> >> >>>>>> There have been no external bug reports, so presumably users >>> are not >>> >> >>>>>> unhappy with the current behaviour. >>> >> >>>>>> Or perhaps hardly anyone uses the Cache Manager. >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>> No clearly there has been reports but not on mailing list. >>> >> >>>> It would help to link to these on the Bug report. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>>> As far as I remember I opened this bug after a twitter >>> discussion: >>> >> >>>>> https://twitter.com/Scooletz/status/317252989003915264 >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> And see this: >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17694151/jmeter-response-code-204-and-cant-get-content >>> >> >>>>> https://flood.io/blog/18-understanding-the-jmeter-cache >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jmeter-dev/201303.mbox/%3ccah9fupyxz8+jxzp48l37yxa_vxntoq4ghmhibg6kopfofe-...@mail.gmail.com%3E >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> This suggests returning a sample with a different status, rather >>> than >>> >> >>>> no sample at all. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> You mean the last one ? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>>> So for me returning 204 is clearly a bug that must be fixed. >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> Also, I wonder whether the fix for the bug report is the only >>> >> possible >>> >> >>>> one. >>> >> >>>>>> It seems odd to drop the sample result entirely. >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>> For me dropping sample is fine as in this case , a browser would >>> >> lookup >>> >> >>>>> cache and not hit server and not return 204. >>> >> >>>>> 204 is a particular code that does not meet this case. >>> >> >>>> Perhaps, but JMeter is not a browser, and anyway a browser would >>> >> >>>> return the cache entry. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> Yes but it would not return 204. 204 is a code that means server >>> >> returned >>> >> >>> an empty response , but server was hit so clearly wrong in this >>> case. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> Not returning a sample is not necessarily the correct thing to do. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> Why ? for me it means no request occured which is what happens for >>> the >>> >> >>> browser and on client <=> server dialog (which jmeter mimics) >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> There is no unique HTTP status that corresponds to a local cache >>> hit. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> Yes because in this case , HTTP is not involved as no Request >>> occurs >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> I assume that it was decided to use 204 as being the closest. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> JMeter is not a browser; it is primarily intended for testing >>> servers. >>> >> >>>> So I think what is important here is to generate results that can >>> be >>> >> >>>> analysed to show the appropriate performance figures. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> Not returning any sample when cache is hit is the right option for >>> me >>> >> for >>> >> >>> the reason I described above. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> If you are only interested in the samples that hit the server, >>> then I >>> >> >>>> agree that cached responses can be ignored. >>> >> >>>> But if one is interested in the client load that the server can >>> >> >>>> support, it would be useful to be able to record cache hits. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> Yes this could be useful. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>>> An alternative would be to return 200 (cache) for a local cache >>> hit. >>> >> >>>> Though this is not ideal given that JMeter does not currently >>> cache >>> >> the >>> >> >>>> content. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Maybe JMeter could return a currently unused status? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Suppose JMeter were enhanced to cache the response content. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>> You mean https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=53540 >>> ? >>> >> >> Not really. >>> >> >> That issue is a consequence of not caching the content, not actually >>> >> >> an enhancement request to add such caching. >>> >> >> Indeed one solution was to cache just the embedded resource URLs, >>> >> >> which is quite different. >>> >> >> >>> >> >>>> What status should it return? How would one distinguish it from an >>> >> >>>> actual server request? >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Could you give more details on this through an example ? >>> >> >> Seems too obvious to need explaining, but here goes: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Assume JMeter has been enhanced to cache the full content of a URL. >>> >> >> Request a URL. >>> >> >> Assume it is cached. >>> >> >> Request the same URL, assume the cache entry has not expired. >>> >> >> JMeter can then return the entire contents, exactly as it did >>> >> originally. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> If it returns 200, how can one tell from the response whether it was >>> >> >> served from cache or from the server? >>> >> >> Note that a server request can have an elapsed time of zero if the >>> >> >> server is faster than the clock granularity >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> Regards >>> >> >>>>>>>>> Philippe >>> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Milamber < >>> >> [email protected]> >>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Le 31/08/2014 13:22, Philippe Mouawad a ecrit : >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if the current icon for Templates is the right >>> one. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> The first icon which was a kind of wizard seems to me >>> maybe a >>> >> >>>>>> better >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> option >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> even if it's not really a wizard. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> The current icon is kind of "unknown" in the mind of users >>> I >>> >> >>>> think >>> >> >>>>>>>> which >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> does not encourage its usage. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts ? >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> No problem for me for change icon, but the Wizard icon seems >>> >> >>>>>> introduce >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> some confusion to the users (the template box is just 1 >>> box, not >>> >> >>>>>> several >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> steps to construct a test plan like a "wizard" in a >>> software). >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps ask on user mailing list (make a poll to choice the >>> best >>> >> >>>>>> icon?) >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Philippe >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Milamber < >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/07/2013 22:15, sebb a ecrit : >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 July 2013 22:32, Milamber <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/07/2013 20:58, sebb a ecrit : >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1, but I think it should be after Open; >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, I prefer the template icon after New icon. >>> It's >>> >> >>>> more >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-friendly in my mind. New=>New test plan from >>> scratch, >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Template=>New >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> test(or merge) to help end / beginner user, Open=>Open a >>> >> test >>> >> >>>>>> plan >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> that I >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> create (I'm pass the first steps to use JMeter). >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless there are plenty of templates for the user, they >>> >> will >>> >> >>>>>>>> likely >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ignore the Template button very quickly.. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Template behavior is a new functionality of JMeter, I >>> >> can't >>> >> >>>>>> know >>> >> >>>>>>>> if >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> we >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> will have a plenty of templates (I hope this). >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would like commit with "New|Template|Open" in toolbar. >>> If in >>> >> >>>>>>>> future, >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> the >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> users brings some misunderstand on this order/toolbar, we >>> can >>> >> >>>>>> change >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> easily >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> the order. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Milamber >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and we need to drop the New >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> icon (Bug 55258) - so it will still be second. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 July 2013 19:37, Philippe Mouawad < >>> >> >>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for app office >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 13, 2013, Milamber wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/07/2013 16:29, sebb a ecrit : >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 July 2013 17:05, Milamber < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> >>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 12/07/2013 14:10, sebb a ecrit : >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12 July 2013 09:07, Milamber < >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thinks the new ability of Templates can have a >>> >> >>>>>> dedicated >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> button >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toolbar. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I saw the Open Icon Library [1] to find a icon >>> to >>> >> >>>> this >>> >> >>>>>>>> action >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CC-BT-SA 3.0). >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CC-BY-SA >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I found two icons (the same but with two >>> different >>> >> >>>>>>>> colors), >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magic >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wand. In the sense of "magician". >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure the Template system is anything like a >>> >> >>>> Wizard >>> >> >>>>>> in >>> >> >>>>>>>> the >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computing sense. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's misleading to use a wand here. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically it's a selection from a list. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've update with other icon (CC-BY-SA) : >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.milamberspace.net/**toolbar-template/< >>> >> >>>>>> http://www. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milamberspace.net/toolbar-template/> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The open icon library provide great icons, but it's >>> >> very >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> difficult >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find a >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good icon with the good license for the "templates" >>> >> >>>>>> bahavior. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, indeed. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about one of the following? >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >>> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./** >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Icons/categories/applications-**office.png<http:// >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> openiconlibrary.sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./Icons/ >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> categories/applications-office.png> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >>> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./** >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Icons/actions/archive-insert-**3.png< >>> >> >>>> http://openiconlibrary >>> >> >>>>>> . >>> >> >>>>>> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./Icons/actions/archive-insert-3.png >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >>> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./** >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Icons/actions/document-import-**2.pngve<http:// >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>> openiconlibrary.sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./Icons/actions/ >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document-import-2.pngve>update >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> : >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've update the page: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.milamberspace.net/**toolbar-template/< >>> >> >>>> http://www. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milamberspace.net/toolbar-template/> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The application-office icon seems very good ? +1 for >>> me >>> >> at >>> >> >>>>>> this >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can see the render here and 2 proposal of >>> >> >>>> position in >>> >> >>>>>>>> the >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toolbar: >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.milamberspace.net/**toolbar-template/ >>> < >>> >> >>>>>> http://www >>> >> >>>>>>>> . >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milamberspace.net/toolbar-template/> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think any icon belongs either just before or >>> >> just >>> >> >>>>>> after >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Open", >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i.e. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New, Template, Open >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New, Open, Template >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does not seem logical to have it between Save >>> >> >>>> Selection >>> >> >>>>>>>> and >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Cut. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is your opinion? need to find a new icon? >>> the >>> >> >>>> best >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position/color? >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Milamber >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >>> >> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./ >>> >> >>>>>>>> <http:/ >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /openiconlibrary.sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cordialement. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>>>> -- >>> >> >>>>>>>>> Cordialement. >>> >> >>>>>>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>>> -- >>> >> >>>>>>> Cordialement. >>> >> >>>>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> -- >>> >> >>>>> Cordialement. >>> >> >>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> -- >>> >> >>> Cordialement. >>> >> >>> Philippe Mouawad. >>> >> > >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Cordialement. >>> > Philippe Mouawad. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Cordialement. >> Philippe Mouawad. >> >> >> > > > -- > Cordialement. > Philippe Mouawad.
