Hello, I implemented what sebb proposed in his last comment. Documented in : https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=54778
Feedback welcome. @Sebb, regarding the subject :-) , where can we find the Template icon ? Thanks On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:58 PM, Philippe Mouawad < [email protected]> wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:55 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 9 September 2014 12:32, Philippe Mouawad <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:23 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> On 9 September 2014 09:00, Andrey Pohilko <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Hi, >> >> > >> >> > My opinion on the cached sample handling: >> >> > >> >> > 1. Not returning sample is wrong. Once user has Sampler he expects >> >> > sample to be generated in that place. Without a sample we will have >> >> > questions "what's happening" from users. If we look into Firebug or >> >> > Developer Tools, we'll see that there are "samples' for cached >> content, >> >> > having "from cache" as size qualifier. >> >> > 2. Response code 204 is also wrong, it means different situation in >> RFC. >> >> > The response code should be one from cached response. I suppose >> server >> >> > can set caching headers for any of 2xx coded responses and client >> should >> >> > respect that. >> >> > >> >> > I would suggest following: >> >> > a) return the code that were present in original cached response. >> >> > and the response message also >> >> > b) in case of cached response add " (cached)" string to response >> >> > message. Response message string is not defined as required by RFC >> and >> >> > may contain any string in it, it is 100% informational. For example, >> >> > original sample "200 OK" will look as "200 OK (cached)" >> >> > c) enable this by default, no property needed since the behavior >> is >> >> > unambiguous >> >> >> >> It's a bit harder to detect the sample, which is why I was thinking >> >> about defining a specific non-HTTP return code. >> >> This could be done using a property to override the 200 code. >> >> >> >> Also JMeter does not cache the content, so the sample won't have any >> data. >> >> Post-Processors may need to be aware of this. >> >> Though given that 204 status is also success, and was not excluded >> >> previously, perhaps this is not an issue. >> >> >> > >> > Not removing the sampleresults means erroneously impacting positively >> > response time no ? >> >> Depends on how the response times are calculated. >> >> > Also regarding Andrei note on difference between browser showing 200 >> > (cache) vs JMeter not showing it,for me main JMeter job is simulate >> > load on server and traffic between Browser and Server, so it should not >> > report anything for Browser internal traffic. >> >> I don't think there is an ideal solution to this. >> Some people will want to see all the samples executed by JMeter, and >> some will need to see only the external requests. >> >> There are probably at least 3 approaches: >> 1) return null sample (i.e. no sample) >> 2) return sample with status 200 and message containing "(ex cache)" or >> similar >> 3) return sample with a different status, chosen by the user >> > > Ok let's implement it then, would it be active through property ? > What would be the default ? > > >> > Regarding caching the content, the impact on JMeter memory would be >> huge, I >> > doubt it scales fine. >> >> Does not have to be purely a memory cache; it could be disk-based (as >> most browsers use) >> > I think it would be IO overkill in this case. But why not some day > >> >> > >> >> > Andrey Pokhilko >> >> > >> >> > On 09.09.2014 00:41, sebb wrote: >> >> >> On 8 September 2014 21:21, Philippe Mouawad < >> [email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:08 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> On 8 September 2014 11:56, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> [email protected]> >> >> >>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:33 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> On 7 September 2014 19:49, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:33 PM, sebb <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> On 6 September 2014 22:44, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> >>>> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>> Hello All, >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> We could make a poll with 3 items: >> >> >>>>>>>> [This should have been a new thread, and all these should be >> >> separate >> >> >>>>>>>> user threads] >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> 1) Ask Early users to test and give feedback on Undo/Redo >> >> feature >> >> >>>> in >> >> >>>>>>>>> nightly build >> >> >>>>>>>> +1 >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Let me just finish the Toolbar enabling/disabling >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> 2) Make a poll on the "Template" icon ? I agree with you and >> I >> >> >>>> think >> >> >>>>>> sebb >> >> >>>>>>>>> had raised this when initially icon was a wizard. My concern >> is >> >> >>>> that >> >> >>>>>>>>> current icon may not be clear or "known" in other >> applications, >> >> so >> >> >>>> I >> >> >>>>>>>> wonder >> >> >>>>>>>>> if new user or even usual user have the idea of using it >> >> >>>>>>>> Perhaps see if we could use the Templates icon from >> OpenOffice? >> >> >>>>>>>> This looks like a piece of paper with a star in the top left >> >> corner. >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> Here's a screenshot: >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~sebb/JMeter/Templates.png >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Nice one >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> I don't think we necessarily need a poll on this, so long as >> we >> >> all >> >> >>>>>>>> agree that the new icon is better. >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> 3) Make a poll (As sebb proposed in another thread) on the >> need >> >> to >> >> >>>>>> add a >> >> >>>>>>>>> user property for bugzilla 54778, to allow users to revert >> to < >> >> >>>> 2.12 >> >> >>>>>>>>> behaviour. My opinion based on previous versions behaviour is >> >> that >> >> >>>> we >> >> >>>>>>>>> should introduce this , asking community may be confusing >> >> >>>>>>>> If they are confused by the choice, won't they be confused by >> the >> >> >>>>>>>> change in behaviour? >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> It will depend on how the information is presented. >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> What about this: >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> When using Cache Manager in JMeter. If a resource is found in >> cache >> >> >>>> then: >> >> >>>>>>> - Up to version 2.11, no request hits the server and a 204 >> response >> >> >>>> code >> >> >>>>>>> with empty content was returned as a SampleResult >> >> >>>>>>> - Starting from 2.12, no request hits the server, but no more >> >> >>>>>> SampleResult >> >> >>>>>>> will be created (this is inline with what browser do) >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> This change will affect: >> >> >>>>>>> - the number of Samples in results >> >> >>>>>>> - the average, median response time reported >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> We propose 2 options to handle this: >> >> >>>>>>> (1) Add the possibility through a JMeter property to revert >> back >> >> to <= >> >> >>>>>> 2.11 >> >> >>>>>>> behaviour >> >> >>>>>>> (2) No JMeter property to revert back to <= 2.11 behaviour >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Please vote depending on what would be better for you. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> Or maybe we could use a doodle ? >> >> >>>>>> On reflection, I agree that providing a property to select the >> >> >>>>>> behaviour is the obvious thing to do. >> >> >>>>>> Adding the property does not need a vote. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Ok >> >> >>>>>> However, I'm not sure we should change the default. >> >> >>>>>> There have been no external bug reports, so presumably users >> are not >> >> >>>>>> unhappy with the current behaviour. >> >> >>>>>> Or perhaps hardly anyone uses the Cache Manager. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>> No clearly there has been reports but not on mailing list. >> >> >>>> It would help to link to these on the Bug report. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>>> As far as I remember I opened this bug after a twitter >> discussion: >> >> >>>>> https://twitter.com/Scooletz/status/317252989003915264 >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> And see this: >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17694151/jmeter-response-code-204-and-cant-get-content >> >> >>>>> https://flood.io/blog/18-understanding-the-jmeter-cache >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/jmeter-dev/201303.mbox/%3ccah9fupyxz8+jxzp48l37yxa_vxntoq4ghmhibg6kopfofe-...@mail.gmail.com%3E >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> This suggests returning a sample with a different status, rather >> than >> >> >>>> no sample at all. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> You mean the last one ? >> >> >>> >> >> >>>>> So for me returning 204 is clearly a bug that must be fixed. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>>> Also, I wonder whether the fix for the bug report is the only >> >> possible >> >> >>>> one. >> >> >>>>>> It seems odd to drop the sample result entirely. >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>> For me dropping sample is fine as in this case , a browser would >> >> lookup >> >> >>>>> cache and not hit server and not return 204. >> >> >>>>> 204 is a particular code that does not meet this case. >> >> >>>> Perhaps, but JMeter is not a browser, and anyway a browser would >> >> >>>> return the cache entry. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> Yes but it would not return 204. 204 is a code that means server >> >> returned >> >> >>> an empty response , but server was hit so clearly wrong in this >> case. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> Not returning a sample is not necessarily the correct thing to do. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> Why ? for me it means no request occured which is what happens for >> the >> >> >>> browser and on client <=> server dialog (which jmeter mimics) >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> There is no unique HTTP status that corresponds to a local cache >> hit. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> Yes because in this case , HTTP is not involved as no Request >> occurs >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> I assume that it was decided to use 204 as being the closest. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> JMeter is not a browser; it is primarily intended for testing >> servers. >> >> >>>> So I think what is important here is to generate results that can >> be >> >> >>>> analysed to show the appropriate performance figures. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> Not returning any sample when cache is hit is the right option for >> me >> >> for >> >> >>> the reason I described above. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> If you are only interested in the samples that hit the server, >> then I >> >> >>>> agree that cached responses can be ignored. >> >> >>>> But if one is interested in the client load that the server can >> >> >>>> support, it would be useful to be able to record cache hits. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> Yes this could be useful. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> An alternative would be to return 200 (cache) for a local cache >> hit. >> >> >>>> Though this is not ideal given that JMeter does not currently >> cache >> >> the >> >> >>>> content. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Maybe JMeter could return a currently unused status? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Suppose JMeter were enhanced to cache the response content. >> >> >>>> >> >> >>> You mean https://issues.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=53540 >> ? >> >> >> Not really. >> >> >> That issue is a consequence of not caching the content, not actually >> >> >> an enhancement request to add such caching. >> >> >> Indeed one solution was to cache just the embedded resource URLs, >> >> >> which is quite different. >> >> >> >> >> >>>> What status should it return? How would one distinguish it from an >> >> >>>> actual server request? >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> Could you give more details on this through an example ? >> >> >> Seems too obvious to need explaining, but here goes: >> >> >> >> >> >> Assume JMeter has been enhanced to cache the full content of a URL. >> >> >> Request a URL. >> >> >> Assume it is cached. >> >> >> Request the same URL, assume the cache entry has not expired. >> >> >> JMeter can then return the entire contents, exactly as it did >> >> originally. >> >> >> >> >> >> If it returns 200, how can one tell from the response whether it was >> >> >> served from cache or from the server? >> >> >> Note that a server request can have an elapsed time of zero if the >> >> >> server is faster than the clock granularity >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>>>>>>> Regards >> >> >>>>>>>>> Philippe >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:34 AM, Milamber < >> >> [email protected]> >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Le 31/08/2014 13:22, Philippe Mouawad a ecrit : >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if the current icon for Templates is the right >> one. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> The first icon which was a kind of wizard seems to me >> maybe a >> >> >>>>>> better >> >> >>>>>>>>>> option >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> even if it's not really a wizard. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> The current icon is kind of "unknown" in the mind of users >> I >> >> >>>> think >> >> >>>>>>>> which >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> does not encourage its usage. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts ? >> >> >>>>>>>>>> No problem for me for change icon, but the Wizard icon seems >> >> >>>>>> introduce >> >> >>>>>>>>>> some confusion to the users (the template box is just 1 >> box, not >> >> >>>>>> several >> >> >>>>>>>>>> steps to construct a test plan like a "wizard" in a >> software). >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Perhaps ask on user mailing list (make a poll to choice the >> best >> >> >>>>>> icon?) >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Philippe >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Milamber < >> >> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/07/2013 22:15, sebb a ecrit : >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 July 2013 22:32, Milamber <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/07/2013 20:58, sebb a ecrit : >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1, but I think it should be after Open; >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely, I prefer the template icon after New icon. >> It's >> >> >>>> more >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> user-friendly in my mind. New=>New test plan from >> scratch, >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Template=>New >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> test(or merge) to help end / beginner user, Open=>Open a >> >> test >> >> >>>>>> plan >> >> >>>>>>>>>> that I >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> create (I'm pass the first steps to use JMeter). >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless there are plenty of templates for the user, they >> >> will >> >> >>>>>>>> likely >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ignore the Template button very quickly.. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> The Template behavior is a new functionality of JMeter, I >> >> can't >> >> >>>>>> know >> >> >>>>>>>> if >> >> >>>>>>>>>> we >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> will have a plenty of templates (I hope this). >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> I would like commit with "New|Template|Open" in toolbar. >> If in >> >> >>>>>>>> future, >> >> >>>>>>>>>> the >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> users brings some misunderstand on this order/toolbar, we >> can >> >> >>>>>> change >> >> >>>>>>>>>> easily >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> the order. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Milamber >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and we need to drop the New >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> icon (Bug 55258) - so it will still be second. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 July 2013 19:37, Philippe Mouawad < >> >> >>>>>>>> [email protected]> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for app office >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 13, 2013, Milamber wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 13/07/2013 16:29, sebb a ecrit : >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 July 2013 17:05, Milamber < >> [email protected]> >> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 12/07/2013 14:10, sebb a ecrit : >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 12 July 2013 09:07, Milamber < >> >> [email protected] >> >> >>>>>>>> wrote: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thinks the new ability of Templates can have a >> >> >>>>>> dedicated >> >> >>>>>>>>>> button >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toolbar. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Agreed. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I saw the Open Icon Library [1] to find a icon >> to >> >> >>>> this >> >> >>>>>>>> action >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (with >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CC-BT-SA 3.0). >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CC-BY-SA >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I found two icons (the same but with two >> different >> >> >>>>>>>> colors), >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> magic >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wand. In the sense of "magician". >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure the Template system is anything like a >> >> >>>> Wizard >> >> >>>>>> in >> >> >>>>>>>> the >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computing sense. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think it's misleading to use a wand here. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically it's a selection from a list. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've update with other icon (CC-BY-SA) : >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.milamberspace.net/**toolbar-template/< >> >> >>>>>> http://www. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milamberspace.net/toolbar-template/> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The open icon library provide great icons, but it's >> >> very >> >> >>>>>>>>>> difficult >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find a >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good icon with the good license for the "templates" >> >> >>>>>> bahavior. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, indeed. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What about one of the following? >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./** >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Icons/categories/applications-**office.png<http:// >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> openiconlibrary.sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./Icons/ >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> categories/applications-office.png> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./** >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Icons/actions/archive-insert-**3.png< >> >> >>>> http://openiconlibrary >> >> >>>>>> . >> >> >>>>>> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./Icons/actions/archive-insert-3.png >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./** >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Icons/actions/document-import-**2.pngve<http:// >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> openiconlibrary.sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./Icons/actions/ >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> document-import-2.pngve>update >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> : >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've update the page: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.milamberspace.net/**toolbar-template/< >> >> >>>> http://www. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milamberspace.net/toolbar-template/> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The application-office icon seems very good ? +1 for >> me >> >> at >> >> >>>>>> this >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can see the render here and 2 proposal of >> >> >>>> position in >> >> >>>>>>>> the >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> toolbar: >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.milamberspace.net/**toolbar-template/ >> < >> >> >>>>>> http://www >> >> >>>>>>>> . >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> milamberspace.net/toolbar-template/> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think any icon belongs either just before or >> >> just >> >> >>>>>> after >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Open", >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i.e. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New, Template, Open >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New, Open, Template >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It does not seem logical to have it between Save >> >> >>>> Selection >> >> >>>>>>>> and >> >> >>>>>>>>>> Cut. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is your opinion? need to find a new icon? >> the >> >> >>>> best >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position/color? >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Milamber >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://openiconlibrary.** >> >> sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./ >> >> >>>>>>>> <http:/ >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /openiconlibrary.sourceforge.net/gallery2/?./> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cordialement. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>>>> Cordialement. >> >> >>>>>>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>> -- >> >> >>>>>>> Cordialement. >> >> >>>>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> -- >> >> >>>>> Cordialement. >> >> >>>>> Philippe Mouawad. >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> -- >> >> >>> Cordialement. >> >> >>> Philippe Mouawad. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Cordialement. >> > Philippe Mouawad. >> > > > > -- > Cordialement. > Philippe Mouawad. > > > -- Cordialement. Philippe Mouawad.
