Hi Tibor, Yes, of course you can have different build profiles, but this typically indicates that we are putting together things that do not belong together.
On Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 12:30 PM Tibor Zimányi <tibor.zima...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Francisco, > > having one Java repository doesn't mean PR checks need to build everything > in that repository. At the end it is Maven based. The structure you mention > as engine per repository can be a configuration thing in the Java one. E.g. > there could be Maven profiles like rules, dmn, bpmn, serverless-workflow, > etc., that would build just a set of submodules. Maven is pretty flexible, > so it could be configured as we find the most useful. > > Best regards, > Tibor > > Dňa ut 18. 2. 2025, 12:22 Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < > ftira...@redhat.com> > napísal(a): > > > I forgot to mention, in my previous email, that my preferred repo > > structure, one repo to store the common stuff that acts as library for > the > > different engines and one repo per each engine, where engine means: > rules, > > bpmn process, swf process and so on, is simple from CI perspective. > > When modifying the engine repo, we will just compile the content of the > > engine repo being modified (optionally, we might compile the common > stuff). > > That will be far faster than the current approach (when you change SWF, > you > > just check SWF, when you change BPMN, you just check BPMn, and so on). > > Currently, when we modify something in runtimes, we are compiling and > > testing: codegen for all engines, bpmn, swf, quarkus, sprinboot, all apps > > and all examples (we are not compiling drools though). With one kie repo, > > we will compile and test everything (that will take a substantial amount > of > > time and well, the red is there not because of the multi repos, but > because > > of some flaky test that is unrelated with the stuff you are modifying, so > > thinking that coalescing or separating repos fixes the unrelated red is > > wishful thinking, I bet that it will make it worse for drools folks, > which > > currently are not slowed down by keycloak flaky test) > > I know my proposal is not feasible because of historical reasons/lack of > > resources, but I think it was worth writing about, because it will really > > fix the "red flag" problem in most PRs ;) > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 12:04 PM Toni Rikkola <rikk...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > > Right. I have been informed that this change will not introduce the > > > problem I am describing, since it already exists. > > > > > > That means we are already in trouble, but this proposal does not > increase > > > them. > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > Toni > > > > > > On 2025/02/18 09:56:38 Toni Rikkola wrote: > > > > -1 > > > > I should use the Apache account for votes to count. > > > > > > > > Toni > > > > > > > > On 2025/02/18 09:18:20 Toni Rikkola wrote: > > > > > I have very high doubts about this working and I really hope I > > > understood > > > > > this wrong. > > > > > > > > > > PRs sent to `kie` will be checked using a new GitHub Actions > > > > > > hosted inside it and WON’T build `kie-extras` > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new weekly bot is created to update the versioned `kie` SHA at > > > > > > `kie-extras` via PR. Contributors to `kie-extras` start their > week > > > > > > taking a look at it and working together to get that merged ASAP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Each merged PR should have our code base in a state that works from > > > top to > > > > > bottom. > > > > > This is people working on kie pushing work for those working on > > > kie-extras. > > > > > Kie dev/vendor is losing time and/or money for the kie-extra devs > and > > > > > vendors. > > > > > We are independent developers from the community perspective. When > > the > > > kie > > > > > PR is merged there is a task for someone to do and no requirement > for > > > > > anyone to do it. > > > > > There isn't even a requirement for anyone to revert any commit. So > > now > > > > > kie-extras dev needs to touch kie and undo work that was already > > > approved > > > > > or not do that and we fight about who fixes it. > > > > > There is no guarantee the change done at kie is fixable in > > kie-extras. > > > Then > > > > > it needs to be reverted in kie and that takes a week. The > > repositories > > > will > > > > > be out of sync for 2 weeks. > > > > > > > > > > I do like the idea of reducing the repositories. Most bug fixes I > > used > > > to > > > > > do hit 3-4 repositories and I spent weeks restarting the PR builds > > > every > > > > > workday to get a full green. With this cycle even a 2 repo change > can > > > take > > > > > months. > > > > > > > > > > -1. > > > > > > > > > > Toni > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 10:34 AM Kennedy Bowers < > kbow...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2025/02/18 07:53:06 Yeser Amer wrote: > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2025/02/17 23:23:14 Alex Porcelli wrote: > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 6:22 PM Tiago Bento < > > > tiagobe...@apache.org> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a final attempt to shift the focus of the Apache KIE > > > community > > > > > > away > > > > > > > > > from build systems and codebase structure and to allow us > to > > > move > > > > > > > > > forward with a good release cadence while fostering > > innovation > > > in the > > > > > > > > > Open-Source Business Automation space, Alex and I wrote > what > > > we hope > > > > > > > > > to be the last infrastructure-related proposal from us (for > > > quite a > > > > > > > > > while, at least). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We sincerely believe that, if approved, this proposal will > > put > > > Apache > > > > > > > > > KIE in a very advantageous place to welcome new > contributors, > > > > > > > > > encourage current contributors to do their best work yet > and > > > multiply > > > > > > > > > the reach of our technology to even more users. We hope > > > everyone > > > > > > > > > reading this feels heard as we try to incorporate all the > > > feedback we > > > > > > > > > gathered since our first day inside Apache. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We opted to go for a [VOTE] directly to avoid risking an > > > endless > > > > > > > > > conversation again. While we understand this is not the > > > preferred > > > > > > > > > approach for contributing, this subject is still sensitive > > > enough for > > > > > > > > > us to have chosen this method, hopefully for the last time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tiago and Alex. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # > > > > > > > > > # Problem scope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Recently during the many threads that were raised in this > > > mailing > > > > > > > > > list, it became clear that there’s a general concern about > > the > > > > > > > > > direction of the codebase structure and a continued > feedback > > > against > > > > > > > > > the monorepo-ization of the Apache KIE codebase, which > seems > > > to be > > > > > > > > > stealing our energy and making it impossible to focus on > what > > > we all > > > > > > > > > do best: features and innovation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s also clear that the current infrastructure hasn’t been > > > helpful. > > > > > > > > > The level of complexity necessary to maintain the current > > > > > > repositories > > > > > > > > > is holding us back from a more streamlined approach to PR > > > checks and > > > > > > > > > CI and, most importantly, to our releases, preventing us > from > > > > > > > > > maintaining a good cadence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This proposal brings a compromise to the table, between the > > > current > > > > > > > > > poly-repo and a monorepo: a duo-repo, with one repo named > > > `kie`, > > > > > > > > > hosting all Java runtime code, and another repo named > > > `kie-extras`, > > > > > > > > > hosting everything else (including Docs, Examples, > Websites, > > > > > > Container > > > > > > > > > images, Editors, Web apps, Quakus Dev UIs, Jenkins release > > > jobs etc). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The duo-repo-ization of the Apache KIE codebase will allow > us > > > to > > > > > > > > > dramatically simplify the automations we have for PR > checks, > > > CI and > > > > > > > > > release jobs as well as the operation for daily > > contributions, > > > > > > > > > stopping the dependence we have on SNAPSHOTs, for example. > > The > > > > > > > > > ultimate goal is to replace the complicated > > > `build-chain`-based PR > > > > > > > > > checks and the custom Jenkins framework we have for > > > CI/releases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # > > > > > > > > > # What is not in scope > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Cross-repo PRs; as it leads to systems similar to > > > `build-chain` > > > > > > > > > and the custom Jenkins framework. We want to avoid going in > > > that > > > > > > > > > direction again. > > > > > > > > > - Sparse-checkouts mechanism for `kie`; Due to the > > > complexity of > > > > > > > > > setting up something like this, and the other mechanisms > that > > > exist > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > mitigate the increase in size of the repo, this won’t be > > > pursued > > > > > > > > > initially. > > > > > > > > > - A complete review of all repositories under > > > > > > `apache/incubator-kie-*` > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # > > > > > > > > > # The proposal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changes to repositories: > > > > > > > > > - `drools` is: > > > > > > > > > - Renamed to `kie`, keeping the most-starred > repository > > > we > > > > > > have on > > > > > > > > > GitHub. > > > > > > > > > - Updated to include `optaplanner`, `kogito-runtimes` > > and > > > > > > > > > `kogito-apps`; preserving Git history. > > > > > > > > > - New top-level modules will be created for each > > > > > > repository, > > > > > > > > > making things simpler at the beginning. > > > > > > > > > - Top-level modules prefixed with `drools-` go > to a > > > new > > > > > > > > > folder called `drools`, and top-level modules prefixed with > > > `kie-` go > > > > > > > > > to a new folder called `kie`. > > > > > > > > > - `kie-tools` is: > > > > > > > > > - Renamed to `kie-extras`; reflecting its > > multi-purposed > > > nature > > > > > > > > > of hosting a variety of different package types > > > > > > > > > - `optaplanner`, `kogito-runtimes`, and `kogito-apps` > are: > > > > > > > > > - Updated with READMEs/descriptions pointing to the > new > > > `kie` > > > > > > repo > > > > > > > > > - Archived by Apache INFRA once `kie` is fully > > > operational > > > > > > > > > - `kogito-pipelines` is: > > > > > > > > > - Updated with a disclaimer on its README saying it’s > > no > > > > > > longer used. > > > > > > > > > - Archived by Apache INFRA once `kie` is fully > > > operational > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Changes to automations: > > > > > > > > > - Jenkins is almost completely reset, except for a few > jobs > > > > > > > > > necessary for the Release Procedure [1]. > > > > > > > > > - Timestamped SNAPSHOTs stop being published every > Sunday. > > > > > > > > > - Regular SNAPSHOTs stop being published every day. > > > > > > > > > - `apache.snapshots` repository is cleaned up so that no > > > SNAPSHOTs > > > > > > > > > are available anymore. > > > > > > > > > - PRs sent to `kie` will be checked using a new GitHub > > > Actions > > > > > > > > > hosted inside it and WON’T build `kie-extras` > > > > > > > > > - PRs sent to `kie-extras` will be checked as they > already > > > are, > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > a new step at the beginning that will build (or fetch from > a > > > cached > > > > > > > > > GitHub Actions artifact) `kie` at a versioned commit SHA. > > > > > > > > > - A new weekly bot is created to update the versioned > `kie` > > > SHA at > > > > > > > > > `kie-extras` via PR. Contributors to `kie-extras` start > their > > > week > > > > > > > > > taking a look at it and working together to get that merged > > > ASAP. > > > > > > > > > - A new release job stored in `kie-extras` is created to > > > build and > > > > > > > > > publish `kie` on a Release Candidate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Communication: > > > > > > > > > - Apache KIE’s website and documentation are updated to > > > reflect the > > > > > > > > > new duo-repo structure. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Impact on operation and contributions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Contributors to `optaplanner`, `kogito-runtimes` and > > > > > > `kogito-apps` > > > > > > > > > will move to `kie` > > > > > > > > > - PR checks will take the same time (or less, if we’re > able > > > to > > > > > > > > > capitalize more on parallel builds, given every module is > > > going to be > > > > > > > > > part of the same build in Maven’s reactor). > > > > > > > > > - Unified Maven dependency management, less surface to > > manage > > > > > > > > > external dependencies. > > > > > > > > > - Contributions to `kie-extras` that depend on `kie` will > > > continue > > > > > > > > > being bi-phased, the same way they are today with the > > > timestamped > > > > > > > > > SNAPSHOTs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ### Notes on SNAPSHOTs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - According to Apache’s guidelines on unreleased > artifacts, > > > we > > > > > > > > > should be very conscious about our SNAPSHOT usage in > regards > > to > > > > > > > > > encouraging users to consume them or even to depend on > them. > > > See > > > > > > > > > > > https://infra.apache.org/release-distribution.html#unreleased > > > > > > > > > - Users will always have access to the latest release and > > > will be > > > > > > > > > encouraged to step on the development itself to access the > > > bleeding > > > > > > > > > edge (Building 999-SNAPSHOT locally from `kie` @ `main`). > > > > > > > > > - Given the discrepancy between `kie` and `kie-extras`, > to > > > make CI > > > > > > > > > simpler and not delve into cross-repo PR systems, it would > be > > > > > > > > > confusing to have some SNAPSHOTs published from > `kie-extras` > > > that are > > > > > > > > > not aligned with SNAPSHOTs from `kie`. > > > > > > > > > - Given the simplified structure of the codebase, > > publishing > > > > > > > > > SNAPSHOTs would encourage usage that’s either not aligned > > with > > > Apache > > > > > > > > > or with our strategy of not having cross-repo PRs. We can > > > revisit > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > in the future if we find a justification for such. This > > > proposal > > > > > > > > > doesn’t want to get in the way of any future work, just > > > establish a > > > > > > > > > comprehensive baseline for us to evolve on top of. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # > > > > > > > > > # Actionable items (plan) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phase 1 (New structure) > > > > > > > > > - A new GitHub Actions workflow is created on `drools` > for > > PR > > > > > > checks > > > > > > > > > (without building any other repos) > > > > > > > > > - `optaplanner` is incorporated as a top-level folder on > > > `drools`, > > > > > > > > > preserving Git history > > > > > > > > > - `optaplanner`’s README is updated, pointing to `drools` > > as > > > its > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > home. Contributions to it are frozen. > > > > > > > > > - `kogito-runtimes` is incorporated as a top-level folder > > on > > > > > > > > > `drools`, preserving Git history > > > > > > > > > - `kogito-runtimes`’s README is updated, pointing to > > > `drools` as > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > new home. Contributions to it are frozen. > > > > > > > > > - `kogito-apps` is incorporated as a top-level folder on > > > `drools`, > > > > > > > > > preserving Git history > > > > > > > > > - `kogito-apps`’s README is updated, pointing to `drools` > > as > > > its > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > home. Contributions to it are frozen. > > > > > > > > > - `drools` is renamed to `kie` (GitHub redirects will > make > > > sure > > > > > > > > > users accessing/cloning `drools` automatically go to `kie`) > > > > > > > > > - `kie`’s README is updated to reflect its new top-level > > > packages. > > > > > > > > > - `kie-tools` is renamed to `kie-extras`. > > > > > > > > > - `kie-tools` has its reference to `kie` updated to a > > > versioned > > > > > > > > > commit SHA, at the same time as its PR checks and CI are > > > updated to > > > > > > > > > build `kie` prior to building itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phase 2 (Cleanup) > > > > > > > > > - `build-chain`-based GitHub Actions are deleted from all > > > > > > repositories. > > > > > > > > > - The custom Jenkins framework jobs are removed from > > Jenkins > > > > > > > > > - Update Documentation and Websites to reflect new > codebase > > > > > > structure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phase 3 (Release) > > > > > > > > > - A new release job is created on Jenkins (hosted on > > > `kie-extras`) > > > > > > > > > to release Maven modules from `kie`. > > > > > > > > > - The Release Procedure for 10.2 is updated to > accommodate > > > the new > > > > > > > > > codebase structure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phase 4 (Archive Repos) > > > > > > > > > - kogito-pipelines, optaplanner, kogito-runtimes, and > > > kogito-apps > > > > > > > > > are archived by INFRA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # > > > > > > > > > # Commitment and rough timeline > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex and Tiago are fully committed to executing this > proposal > > > with a > > > > > > > > > start date right after 10.1.0 is fully released (approved > by > > > IPMC and > > > > > > > > > published to all external registries). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The rough estimate to execute is about 4 weeks; with [HEADS > > > UP]s > > > > > > > > > coming to the mailing list whenever a change approaches. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.2.0 will be the first release already with the new > > > structure, > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > the new release jobs will be validated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/15V-1e62bmmWeOdFUnSJHymPYoeb0TTwp0bhxPuJn4zo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > > >
