Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
michi,
Michael Wechner wrote:
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote:
Michael Wechner wrote:
this is not about Bob, but about how the Lenya community resp. the
Lenya PMC doesn't seem to be able to be transparent why a person is
being asked becoming a committer.
<snip>
I very much believe in transparency (with some exceptions), but maybe
that's my biggest problem, because most people don't like to be
questioned/critized in public. I also don't like it, but at least I
try to be frank about it.
i agree that thorsten's choice of words sounded a little unfortunate
to me as well (but then, maybe i'm over-sensitive since we've had more
than one heated exchange lately).
but after clarifying his intention (i.e. that people should look for
themselves and make up their own minds) i think the matter is
perfectly settled. bob's contributions do indeed speak for themselves.
so, why aren't they being listed? I think they should be listed for the
record, for other people (e.g. contributors) to learn from how far one
has to go to become a committer, for people who are not being able to
follow every detail as other people are being able to, etc.
Doesn't that make sense?
now you pick out single lines of other people's postings, generalize
statements that were never meant as such, and ask rhethorical
questions that sometimes border on hostile yet seldom convey a
palpable personal standpoint. you claim ideals of good-will, openness
and meritocracy, but frequently phrase them in a way as to be plain
rude to people.
why do you think these questions are rude? I don't think so.
i know i can be obnoxious at times, but people can just should at me
and tell me i'm a jerk. your style of hiding behind suggestions and
rhetorical questions is rather more difficult to deal with, and not
likely to foster an open discussion.
I am not hiding at all by posing questions, but I am asking questions
because I would like to get some statements.
If you might remember I was answering Thomas' question why I started Yanel.
Have you seen an answer from Thorsten lately why he is considering Alfresco?
Ask me stuff and I will be happy to answer (if time permits ;-)
why do you resign from pmc duties one week and start guideline
discussions the next?
well, I am still a committer and have to follow guidelines. I am still
an ASF member and think it's my responsibility to make sure that
guidelines an ASF bylaws are being followed.
Does that make sense?
I have resigned from PMC because I seem to have a very different opinion
where Lenya should go to and how this community should operate, but I am
ready to accept this and after a very long time expressing my opinion
without any change I don't think it makes sense to further spend time on it.
Makes sense?
sorry, but this looks like trolling to me, especially since you have
decided not to contribute to lenya anymore.
I haven't decided to stop contributing anymore. I am not as active
code-wise as I used to be, but will try to further improve on Neutron
(if nobody has any objections).
i hope i'm not starting a personal flame war, but i can't help
thinking there is an unsolved legacy of personal sensitivities and
quarrels that keeps cropping up...
sure, there is. Gregor, Andreas and Thorsten (and Renaud and Edith and
Felix and Christian) all worked for Wyona and I was their boss and we
split up for various reasons, but I don't think that's the problem resp.
I definitely try hard not to be influenced by this.
Don't worry I will ask the same questions when you or anyone else will
do things which I think should be done differently ;-)
And you hopefully will do the same thing, I mean asking questions and
expressing your opinion.
i'd rather not have to deal with that.
imnsho we have way too much meta-talk about guidelines, meritocracy,
pmc roles and whatnot, and way too little work is getting done.
I think this community will only survive in the long term if each member
will stick to guidelines and rules, whereas understanding the reasoning
of these guidelines is key and not the guidelines themselves. But it's a
problem of getting to know people. This is why "being around for some
time" is not such a bad quality ;-) but it's also important to know why
somebody is being around :-)
Lenya will improve when people are actually using it and people are
being taught how they can contribute resp. empowered to do so, but this
needs some patience.
which is why i'm shutting up now.
me too :-)
Good night
Michael
--
Michael Wechner
Wyona - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+41 44 272 91 61
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