On 9 September 2014 12:42, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Sep 8, 2014, at 10:34 PM, Benson Margulies <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 10:27 PM, Jason van Zyl <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> You current CLA is sufficient. You'll the author of the code, you can > >> contribute it to Apache. We need to find the people on that list who do > not > >> have a CLA on file. > >> > > > > Your CLA is sufficient if you, yourself, commit it to an Apache repo. > Since > > we're planning to push a repo full of contributions from github to > apache, > > the CLA is not enough on its own. > > Explain to me how the CLA doesn't cover this case? Whether the code sat on > your machine for 10 years or traveled through 20 repos. It's still your > code and the conditions of the CLA apply. When code comes into the > incubator here or goes into Eclipse no one signs a letter of intent. They > sign CLAs. >
Your CLA covers the code that you contribute to the Apache Foundation (or intend to contribute) and does not cover code you contribute elsewhere. The code in plexus was intended to be contributed to the plexus project and thus there is no demonstrated intent to contribute to Apache. We just need a demonstration of intent from all significant contributors, a simple email to the dev list saying something like "I am happy to have my contributions to plexus contributed to the Apache Maven project" would suffice > > Everyone has to indicate their intent to > > contribute this particular set of stuff. Under the AL, this happens if > you > > commit as a committer, or send a patch to a mailing list, or make a PR. > > Since none of those things are happening, I suggested that contributors > > send mail to the dev@ list saying, 'ok, I want to contribute my content > > from these plexus repos.' > > This is not necessary and I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion > but there's no harm in sending a message of intent. The CLA makes no > specific provisions for how the file is transmitted to the target entity or > that it matters, only that the contributor asserts the work is there's to > contribute under the submitted license. A lawyers is not going to look at a > message sent to a mailing list for intent, they are going to look at a set > of contributed files and determine if those files are covered by CLAs on > hand. > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> On Sep 8, 2014, at 7:32 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >>> here is the new version with csv files and committers deduplicate > >>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html > >>> > >>> now we need to ask for everybody's attribution of his contributions, > and > >> we'll > >>> see how much we cover from each component > >>> > >>> some components should be easy to cover fully, like plexus-cli > >>> some will be harder... > >>> > >>> to start, I'm ready to give ASF all my contributions: how should I > >> proceed? > >>> some formal e-mail on this ML? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Hervé > >>> > >>> Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 23:22:39 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : > >>>> improved the automatic summary > >>>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus/summary.html > >>>> > >>>> I suppose the next step will be to create a csv to be able to work on > >>>> figures with a spreadsheet > >>>> > >>>> I have no time at the moment, will try tomorrow if nobody beats me > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> > >>>> Hervé > >>>> > >>>> Le dimanche 7 septembre 2014 15:01:58 Benson Margulies a écrit : > >>>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Kristian Rosenvold < > >>>>> > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> But I still assume we need to get some kind of idea of how good is > >>>>>> good enough. At some point there's going to be a significant > >>>>>> contributor we won't be able to get hold of. We might be able to > work > >>>>>> around this by removing code or similar, but I don't think there is > >>>>>> any point in starting a massive search for people if 100% is the > only > >>>>>> permitted result. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Is there any way we could get some idea of what kind of requirement > >>>>>> we'd be facing ? Can we acceptably simply delete contributions from > >>>>>> people we can't get hold of (that may work in some cases) ? We > >>>>>> usually operate on a "200 line" quota for requiring a CLA; can we > >>>>>> disregard people with smaller contributions ? (And if so, would that > >>>>>> be *total* 200 lines or "per submission" ...?) > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes, you can open a JIRA at LEGAL, and/or communicate with the > board. I > >>>>> recommend completing the survey first. No one there likes to answer > >>>>> hypothetical questions; having an actual set of facts will grossly > >> improve > >>>>> the conversation. > >>>>> > >>>>>> Kristian > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 2014-09-07 1:01 GMT+02:00 Jason van Zyl <[email protected]>: > >>>>>>> Cool, with your tool can you aggregate that into a single list of > >>>>>> > >>>>>> userIds/Names and then remove us. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I recognize most of the non-us and with that list we can contact > them > >>>>>> > >>>>>> all at once if we want. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sep 6, 2014, at 5:05 PM, Hervé BOUTEMY <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> here are more accurate statistics: > >>>>>>>> http://people.apache.org/~hboutemy/codehaus > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Le samedi 6 septembre 2014 09:39:20 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : > >>>>>>>>> I satrted to write down the count of contributors done by github, > >>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>> > >>>>>> link, > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Plexus+dependencies > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> I'm not sure figures are relevant: > >>>>>>>>> - missing contributions? it seems so, I looked at plexus-velocity > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> older > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> commits are not counted... > >>>>>>>>> - every contribution has to be taken into account? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> we'll probably need to do more manual work: will need to dispatch > >>>>>> > >>>>>> components > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> to avoid one to do the work for everything > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> then we'll need to figure out the process details: I read > >>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html, I suppose > >> I'll > >>>>>> > >>>>>> have as > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Maven Chair some work to do (any help from other members > >>>>>>>>> appreciated), > >>>>>> > >>>>>> but I > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> still don't understand precisely > >>>>>>>>> i will need some explanations from people with experience, > probably > >>>>>>>>> on > >>>>>> > >>>>>> IRC > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> wil be more efficient > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Hervé > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 23:18:14 Hervé BOUTEMY a écrit : > >>>>>>>>>> ok, so how do we do the next step? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hervé > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Le jeudi 4 septembre 2014 06:49:02 Kristian Rosenvold a écrit : > >>>>>>>>>>> I had a look through a few projects, and it would seem to me > like > >>>>>>>>>>> "know" 90% of the committers because they are all associated > with > >>>>>>>>>>> maven, most of them are also active. There's a further 5 or so > >>>>>>>>>>> committers that are well known community folks that we could > >>>>>>>>>>> probably > >>>>>>>>>>> get hold of easily. It would appear to me this group is 95% or > so > >>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>> the commits. There's a handful of names I am unsure if we'll be > >>>>>>>>>>> able > >>>>>>>>>>> to locate, the contributions I've seen from these names are > >> small. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I think it all amounts to something like this: > >>>>>>>>>>> For quite a few of the plexus repos we have close to 100% of > the > >>>>>>>>>>> committers as currently active maven community members. > >>>>>>>>>>> For yet another bunch of projects we have one or two > significant > >>>>>>>>>>> non-maven contributors that we may be able to get hold of. > >>>>>>>>>>> For plexus-utils the list is a bit longer, but there's a lot of > >>>>>>>>>>> smaller contributions that'd normally go below the CLA radar. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I suppose we'd need to get some kind of exact metric to measure > >> by > >>>>>>>>>>> if > >>>>>>>>>>> we were to make an even more structured attempt at evaluating > >>>>>>>>>>> compliance..? > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kristian > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 21:50 GMT+02:00 Jason van Zyl <[email protected]>: > >>>>>>>>>>>> For everything significant where significant is defined as > more > >>>>>>>>>>>> than > >>>>>>>>>>>> 200 > >>>>>>>>>>>> lines. I don't think we have any of those, and if we actually > >>>>>> > >>>>>> expunged > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> from the source classes we don't actually use we're definitely > >>>>>> > >>>>>> safe.> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 3:27 PM, Benson Margulies > >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If _everyone_ is present and accounted for, I agree. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Jason van Zyl < > [email protected] > >>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I think everyone is making this 10x more complicated > than > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our existing CLAs apply. If you wrote the code, you can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For modello, plexus-utils, and plexus-classworlds we're > >> covered > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> far > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 3, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Kristian Rosenvold > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To my best knowledge, *all* of the substantial contributors > >> to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> all > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plexus repositories I have seen are available to us, most > of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PMC's or emeritus, and still "around" in some fashion or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could we make all of them submit some kind of written > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission > >>>>>> > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF ? I would actually think that would cover a decent > >> 95% > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> significant contributions, and in quite a few (maybe even > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all...) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the repos it would cover 100% ? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I am assuming they'll be willing to make such a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> submission...) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-03 19:07 GMT+02:00 Benson Margulies > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> <[email protected]>: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 3:02 AM, Karl Heinz Marbaise > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14 11:18 PM, Benson Margulies wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gang, doesn't the board of the ASF have very strong, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negative, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings about ASF PMC's controlling and maintaining > code > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outside > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the ASF? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there any evident about that ? any official statement > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from ASF Board ? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm working on getting a pointer to a written policy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apache-software-foundation-> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> la > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> un > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ches-apache-extras/#!bO9wnv describes a scheme to allow > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people > >>>>>> > >>>>>> who > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _not_ an Apache PMC to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage Apache-related projects. There is, I predict, a > fine > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between 'some people who happen to be Maven PMC members' > and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 'the > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven PMC', and I'm trying to save us from getting swatted > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> crossing it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I confess that I found this whole topic extremely > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confusing, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what with the googlecode 'Apache Extras' business. We > >> might > >>>>>> > >>>>>> want > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ask for some clarification before we go here. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 5:04 PM, Karl Heinz Marbaise > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/2/14 2:56 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked Github to give us github.com/maven for our > 3rd > >>>>>> > >>>>>> party > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone is using it. Maybe Hervé can setup > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> github.com/apachemaven > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> move those Git repositories there. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately github.com/apachemaven is also occupied > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karl-Heinz Marbaise > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2014, at 3:09 AM, Kristian Rosenvold > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have started talking about moving them somewhere, > >> and > >>>>>> > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have come tom restart that discussion. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can either ask Brian for access or have one of > the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committers apply your pull request. Just a regular > pull > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> request > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> github should do. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kristian > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2014-09-01 22:37 GMT+02:00 Karl Heinz Marbaise > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i just want to know how we handle things which are > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> located > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> components > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like plexus-archiver etc. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Currently i'm diving into some problems and want to > >>>>>> > >>>>>> checkin > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> improvments > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the plexus-archiver... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can i gain commit access to those components ? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Karl-Heinz Marbaise > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A man enjoys his work when he understands the whole and when > >> he > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is responsible for the quality of the whole > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Christopher Alexander, A Pattern Language > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason van Zyl > >>>>>>>>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more > >> it > >>>>>> > >>>>>> will > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it > >>>>>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>>>> come > >>>>>>>>>>>> and sit softly on your shoulder ... > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -- Thoreau > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Jason > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> Jason van Zyl > >>>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven > >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/takari_io > >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what > >> you're > >>>>>> > >>>>>> talking about. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- John von Neumann > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >>> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Jason > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >> Jason van Zyl > >> Founder, Apache Maven > >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >> http://twitter.com/takari_io > >> --------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational > >> and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. > >> > >> -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Thanks, > > Jason > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jason van Zyl > Founder, Apache Maven > http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > http://twitter.com/takari_io > --------------------------------------------------------- > > A man enjoys his work when he understands the whole and when he > is responsible for the quality of the whole > > -- Christopher Alexander, A Pattern Language > > > > > > > > > >
