> If you are attempting to remove plexus-utils initially without a > binary compatible drop-in replacement with code from Apache then I'm -1.
Please re-read my previous mail. We will NOT drop plexus-utils! We will just move maven core off it for most parts. > we've had incremental build support in m2e forever You don't see most of the 'incremental' problems in m2 because the recompile already gets done by eclipse itself I assume. E.g. the maven-compiler-plugin until recently failed to detect cross-class relations and did only recompile the file which got changed. I changed that only recently. LieGrue, strub >________________________________ > From: Jason van Zyl <ja...@tesla.io> >To: Maven Developers List <dev@maven.apache.org>; Mark Struberg ><strub...@yahoo.de> >Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:49 PM >Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils > >You need to do one thing at time and not conflate the replacement of the >plexus-utils code with anything else you want to implement. Mixing the two >will almost certainly lead to problems. > >If you are attempting to remove plexus-utils initially without a binary >compatible drop-in replacement with code from Apache then I'm -1. I'm not >going to change that position because I think you're needlessly causing >problems. If you want to replace the code go for it, just do it safely. > >Incremental builds are a separate matter all together and can be done in a >branch, we've had incremental build support in m2e forever and you don't need >to massively change the core at all to do it. In fact it works right now with >the core as it is. Put a complete proposal together (I've seen the initial >ideas) because if you think you need to drastically change the core for >incremental builds I believe you are incorrect. > >At any rate, one thing at a time. If you want to replace the code in >plexus-utils with something else do that first as a separate, clear endeavor. > >On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:40 AM, Mark Struberg wrote: > >> I fear my perspective is pretty different. >> >> >> To _not_ produce a 1:1 drop in replacement gives us a few benefits. Actually >> it doesn't matter which version maven itself uses as this wont affect user >> builds. >> >> BUT it would _heavily_ affect users if their old builds wont work anymore >> because we dropped some ancient signature. >> >> And there is a well cast technical reason for this change: I need >> new/improved functionality for the incremental build. >> >> >> My proposal is to move maven itself to a much more progressive/improved >> version (thus off plexus-utils) but keep the old signatures and the original >> plexus-utils around for plugins which still uses it. >> >> If a plugin likes to use the new maven-core-utils then this is perfectly >> possible as well of course. >> >> LieGrue, >> strub >> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Jason van Zyl <ja...@tesla.io> >>> To: Maven Developers List <dev@maven.apache.org>; Mark Struberg >>> <strub...@yahoo.de> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:24 PM >>> Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils >>> >>> >>> If you can create a drop-in replacement for the plexus-utils code go for >>> it. I believe this exercise is of little value users and you run the real >>> risk of introducing problems for no technical reason, but if you want to do >>> the work that's your prerogative. >>> >>> >>> So much time was spent to preserve the existing signatures and behaviour in >>> the container swap and this is not something to be taken lightly, and you >>> should do what has been done in the past. >>> >>> >>> I think the path to do this if you want to get rid of the plexus-utils >>> reference is to reduce the foot print to the classes being used in the core >>> and then drop in that reduced JAR. Create a replacement with the code >>> you've copied, reimplemented, improved yet binary compatible and test that >>> for a while. Binary compatible in all respects, package and signature. And >>> from there then make any subsequent changes. >>> >>> >>> I honestly am not overly concerned with plugins because they can be fixed >>> relatively quickly, but doing low value changes in the core for swapping >>> out one set of code for another is seriously playing with fire. >>> >>> >>> If you initially are intending to change code in the core to accommodate >>> this change I see no technical reason for it, is dangerous and I'm -1. >>> >>> >>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, Mark Struberg wrote: >>> >>> While digging thru the plexus-utils usage I wonder whether we should place >>> the maven-utils in maven-core or maven-shared. >>>> >>>> maven-core doesn't yet have any maven-shared dependency it seems. Which >>>> means if we like to use them in maven-core as well we should relocate >>>> maven-shared-utils to the maven-3 core module. >>>> >>>> wdyt? >>>> >>>> LieGrue, >>>> strub >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >>>> From: Kristian Rosenvold <kristian.rosenv...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> To: Maven Developers List <dev@maven.apache.org> >>>>> >>>> Cc: >>>>> >>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:48 AM >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Well obviously given the current number of failing >>>>> >>>> tests,maven-shared-utils is going nowhere right now ;) >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> I will do a test-migration and remove unused code in >>>>> >>>> org.apache.maven.shared.utils.io before we release. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> Kristian >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>> Jason van Zyl >>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype >>> Founder, Apache Maven >>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> What matters is not ideas, but the people who have them. Good people can >>> fix bad ideas, but good ideas can't save bad people. >>> >>> -- Paul Graham >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >> > >Thanks, > >Jason > >---------------------------------------------------------- >Jason van Zyl >Founder & CTO, Sonatype >Founder, Apache Maven >http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >--------------------------------------------------------- > >happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will >elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come >and sit softly on your shoulder ... > >-- Thoreau > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
