On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:59 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:

> 
> 
> well, I had some patches back then and I was asked to sign an obscure CLA 
> (which I refused). 
> Also the license headers have been changed without any code changes, etc. 
> 
> People without an iCLA on file did changes, etc. That kind of IP handling is 
> just not good enough for an ASF project imo.
> 
> And given that most of the code originates from ASF projects I see no reason 
> to not move back the parts we really need (IP cleaned of course).
> 
> 
> You can call me picky, I can certainly live with that :)
> 

All fair arguments, and I would disagree with most of them, but the important 
thing is changing the code safely. If you want to replace it I have no problem 
with that, just don't replace it to add features. You guys have had this 
plexus-utils replacement thing sitting around for over a year now. Finish that 
first and then move on to features.

> 
> Another question: is there an eclipse-aether release in sight?
> 
> 
> LieGrue,
> strub
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Jason van Zyl <[email protected]>
>> To: Maven Developers List <[email protected]>; Mark Struberg 
>> <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 30, 2012, at 8:33 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>> 
>> I'm going to take the risk of making a fool of myself by asking, but:
>>>> 
>>> Not at all, those are good questions actually!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I don't care so much about
>>>> 
>>> *how* something is done, I care greatly about *what* can be done.
>>>> 
>>> Well, that's exactly what it is about. Without having this source in our 
>>> repo again (where it originally was before it got moved out to codehaus and 
>>> later to some 'private' github repo), we cannot maintain maven effectively. 
>>> That sucks big times and hinders the daily development. 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> That is simply not true. Kristian works on plexus-utils all the time, has 
>> never been hindered in the slightest and makes changes to the code all the 
>> time. Kristian if this is untrue then please feel free to correct me. You 
>> may not like where the code is, but your argument that you cannot 
>> effectively work on it is utter nonsense. If you naturally followed this 
>> argument to all dependencies and that you can't effectively leverage any 
>> code unless it's at Apache which is really really viable in the long-term.
>> 
>> 
>> If you want to change it because you feel like it, or don't like that it's 
>> at Codehaus that's fine it's your time. Provided it doesn't harm the core I 
>> can't tell you what to do with your time and how you want to spend it. But 
>> there is proof to the contrary, at least with Kristian, that it's not hard 
>> to effectively maintain or release plexus-utils. In fact, I believe it's 
>> easier because he can make a fix, release it on a dime, and re-incorporate 
>> it back into Maven and not wait 72 hours.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> I see a lot of (proposed) work going on here about incremental compilation,
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> hugely complex refactoring etc.
>>>> 
>>> Actually the refactorings are not that huge. It's a 1:1 import swap for 
>>> most of it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Regarding the incremental build: This has nothing to do with Eclipse. I'm 
>>> was even aware that they have a problem. This is really something I 
>>> personally need as well - as do thousands of other maven users. My company 
>>> build currently takes 5 minutes as it has 98 modules atm. Other projects I 
>>> maintain/build regularely (OpenWebBeans, DeltaSpike, MyFaces, OpenJPA, 
>>> OpenEJB, ...) are not that large, but it's really annoying to always need 
>>> to clean a project and do all over again because the change detection is 
>>> utter broken currently.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> People had the same fear as some people started working on the parallel 
>>> build support.
>>> 
>>> I think it is really worth a try to get incremental builds done properly.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> LieGrue,
>>> strub
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>>> 
>>> From: Chris Graham <[email protected]>
>>>> 
>>> To: Maven Developers List <[email protected]>; Mark Struberg 
>>> <[email protected]> 
>>>> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 2:21 PM
>>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I'm going to take the risk of making a fool of myself by asking, but:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I see a lot of (proposed) work going on here about incremental compilation,
>>>> 
>>> hugely complex refactoring etc.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> But, I've got to ask, what's the benefit?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> Or put another way, looking at the amount of effort, wouldn't it be better
>>>> 
>>> to spend the time elsewhere?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> I am aware of some of the issues that people like the eclipse foundation
>>>> 
>>> have had with incremental compilation, so I'd approach this one with
>>>> 
>>> caution. [From what I remember about it, anyway]
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> These are just questions that I'd ask myself if I was going to attempt
>>>> 
>>> something like this.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> -Chris
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> PS: I tend to approach things from a commericial point of view. I care far
>>>> 
>>> more about function rather than form, that is, I don't care so much about
>>>> 
>>> *how* something is done, I care greatly about *what* can be done.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 10:03 PM, Mark Struberg <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> While digging thru the plexus-utils usage I wonder whether we should place
>>>>> 
>>> the maven-utils in maven-core or maven-shared.
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> maven-core doesn't yet have any maven-shared dependency it seems. Which
>>>>> 
>>> means if we like to use them in maven-core as well we should relocate
>>>>> 
>>> maven-shared-utils to the maven-3 core module.
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> wdyt?
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> LieGrue,
>>>>> 
>>> strub
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> 
>>> From: Kristian Rosenvold <[email protected]>
>>>>>> 
>>> To: Maven Developers List <[email protected]>
>>>>>> 
>>> Cc:
>>>>>> 
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:48 AM
>>>>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: Removing unused code from maven-shared-utils
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> Well obviously given the current number of failing
>>>>>> 
>>> tests,maven-shared-utils is going nowhere right now ;)
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> I will do a test-migration and remove unused code in
>>>>>> 
>>> org.apache.maven.shared.utils.io before we release.
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> Kristian
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype
>> Founder,  Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> People develop abstractions by generalizing from concrete examples.
>> Every attempt to determine the correct abstraction on paper without
>> actually developing a running system is doomed to failure. No one
>> is that smart. A framework is a resuable design, so you develop it by
>> looking at the things it is supposed to be a design of. The more examples
>> you look at, the more general your framework will be.
>> 
>>   -- Ralph Johnson & Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving Frameworks 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> 

Thanks,

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder & CTO, Sonatype
Founder,  Apache Maven
http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
---------------------------------------------------------

believe nothing, no matter where you read it,
or who has said it,
not even if i have said it,
unless it agrees with your own reason
and your own common sense.

 -- Buddha





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