On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 11:52 PM, Mark H. Wood <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 09:04:09PM -0700, Manfred Moser wrote: > > On Wed, September 12, 2012 6:06 pm, Chris Graham wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Anders Hammar <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> I fully agree with you and I'm actually of the opinion that the Java > > >> community has a responsibility to provide enough reasons for those on > > >> older Java platforms to upgrade. But as long as we provide libraries > > >> > > > > > > Simple. > > > > > > Two reasons actually. > > > > > > Without going off on an essay about the psychology of developers and > being > > > obsessed with "shiny new things" (and a Dev centric view of the > world)... > > > > > > 1. Cost. > > > > > > 2. Especially in the corporate world, they are far more concerned with > > > function rather than form (ie the underlying technology). In short, if > it > > > works, leave it. Which also relates to #1. > > > > > > Case in point: My current project is a multi million dollar one that is > > > *finally* moving from 5-7 YO tech to the newest stack. Partly due to > the > > > support issues, but mostly due to the cost of support of the older > > > versions; it's finally become cheaper to upgrade than to continue > paying > > > the huge support costs. > > > > > > But my basic point is, that the act of upgrading large systems is not a > > > cheap one, so it is NOT done lightly. > > > > I think that the cost is only so high because companies keep waiting > until > > it is too painful. If you constantly keep upgrading a bit here and there > > and stay up to date with your operating systems, runtime environments, > > browsers and client site frameworks and so on you would actually be able > > to save a LOT of money in the long run. But you would have to constantly > > invest rather than waiting with no investment until things fall apart and > > then being forced to large costly upgrades. > > I think this happens because the money you spend on upgrading and the > money you save because of it are in two different pots. If you look > at the way budgeting works, you might find that the current behavior > makes sense -- assuming that you accept that the way budgeting works, > makes sense. :-/ > Absolutely true! Especially when support is outsourced (even internally) an you have on-shore/off-shore teams. Thanks for reminding me of that. -Chris > So it is mostly short sighted management and an absence of real technology > > leadership in organizations causing this problem imho. And forcing the > > pain to stay on old stuff higher (like Oracle is doing with deprecating > > Java 6 earlier) is actually a good thing. > > > > imho Maven 2 should have long been deprecated and removed from the > > downloads pages.. > > Tell the distro.s. Gentoo still has Maven 3 keyworded on all arches, > and Gentoo is one of the bleeding-edge, daily-updating distro.s. I'll > be using M3 for production work the day after they take the ~amd64 > keyword off it. > > -- > Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer [email protected] > Asking whether markets are efficient is like asking whether people are > smart. >
