On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:44 PM, Jan Lahoda <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi, > > I agree there's a need for a short- and long- term solutions. Here, I was > more aiming for the short-term ones, as we are getting into the stage where > I think we need a particular plan and action items to fulfil it. The > simplest thing implementation wise is roughly this: > 1. change libs.javacapi and libs.javacimpl somehow to be "compile-time > only" (so that the rest of the Java editor can still compile against them, > but are not in the resulting binary build zip). > 2. produce NBMs for them, put them somewhere > 3. instruct the users to download the NBMs and place them into > "java/update/download" > > This way, when the IDE starts up, it should install the NBMs. (Obviously > this is not the nicest behavior, but improving this means some more piece > of work.) > > Regarding LSP - (after doing some experiments) (per my understanding) the > issue is that LSP is just a protocol: one needs to have an actual (locally > running) "server" program to provide the answers. So either we would write > one ourselves (which I think does not solve much w.r.t this issue), or use > an existing one (in which case the question is if it will and continue to > do what we want/need). > > For using JDK javac - I'd suggest to try the jdk-javac branch, and use JDK > 10 to run the IDE (there were some fixes recently that in the end improved > the IDE behavior). At some point I'd like to summarize what it does and > how, but didn't get to that. > FWIW, I've started with a description on the jdk-javac branch here: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Java+Editor+Using+JDK+javac Jan > > Jan > > > > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Antonio <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Yes, exactly: we need two solutions for the same problem: a short term >> one to launch but a long term one too. >> >> I think I read somewhere that the Language Server Protocol had problems >> with refactoring. I'm not sure about this, though. >> >> From my point of view the NetBeans IDE should embrace the LSP sooner or >> later. I don't think LSP is just a fashion, and I think it's going to stay. >> Taking advantage of any third-party LSP tools would be great. >> >> Finally, I don't know if LSP is comparable to nb-javac, nor if they're >> incompatible. I'll have to dig deeper into nb-javac to understand to what >> extent is integrated into the NetBeans IDE, what it does and how it works. >> Any pointers on this, anyone? >> >> Cheers, >> Antonio >> >> >> El 14/11/17 a las 20:44, Geertjan Wielenga escribió: >> >>> What we want, is not so relevant, unfortunately. And asking anyone >>> anything >>> is a question of months, which we don’t have. Wider needs, great, let’s >>> work on those. >>> >>> In the meantime, what’s the best approach? Maybe putting these two >>> nb-javac >>> JARs on bitbucket and explicitly informing the user during installation >>> via >>> the installer wizard for agreement on theibeing downloaded and placed in >>> the correct locations locally? >>> >>> Gj >>> >>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 at 19:36, Neil C Smith <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2017, 18:54 Jan Lahoda, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Another aspect is from where to download the library: I assume we would >>>>> need a reasonably stable place to which we could point the users. >>>>> >>>>> Are there any opinions on this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> As before when this came up, as well as where it's downloaded from, I'd >>>> be >>>> interested to know how it's going to be maintained there? It feels hard >>>> to >>>> answer one question without the other? >>>> >>>> I also still wonder whether there's been further thought on asking the >>>> OpenJDK project to host it (as ide-javac)? The last time I suggested >>>> that >>>> there was a feeling that it was too NetBeans specific, and other >>>> projects >>>> were moving to things like Language Server Protocol. Just for the record >>>> (as I mentioned to Jaroslav a while back) of the two LSP plugins for >>>> Java, >>>> one is Eclipse based, and the other is using nb-javac. There is >>>> obviously a >>>> wider need for the features it brings! >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> >>>> Neil >>>> >>>> -- >>>>> >>>> Neil C Smith >>>> Artist & Technologist >>>> www.neilcsmith.net >>>> >>>> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - >>>> www.praxislive.org >>>> >>>> >>> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 10:44 PM, Jan Lahoda <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > I agree there's a need for a short- and long- term solutions. Here, I was > more aiming for the short-term ones, as we are getting into the stage where > I think we need a particular plan and action items to fulfil it. The > simplest thing implementation wise is roughly this: > 1. change libs.javacapi and libs.javacimpl somehow to be "compile-time > only" (so that the rest of the Java editor can still compile against them, > but are not in the resulting binary build zip). > 2. produce NBMs for them, put them somewhere > 3. instruct the users to download the NBMs and place them into > "java/update/download" > > This way, when the IDE starts up, it should install the NBMs. (Obviously > this is not the nicest behavior, but improving this means some more piece > of work.) > > Regarding LSP - (after doing some experiments) (per my understanding) the > issue is that LSP is just a protocol: one needs to have an actual (locally > running) "server" program to provide the answers. So either we would write > one ourselves (which I think does not solve much w.r.t this issue), or use > an existing one (in which case the question is if it will and continue to > do what we want/need). > > For using JDK javac - I'd suggest to try the jdk-javac branch, and use JDK > 10 to run the IDE (there were some fixes recently that in the end improved > the IDE behavior). At some point I'd like to summarize what it does and > how, but didn't get to that. > > Jan > > > > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Antonio <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Yes, exactly: we need two solutions for the same problem: a short term >> one to launch but a long term one too. >> >> I think I read somewhere that the Language Server Protocol had problems >> with refactoring. I'm not sure about this, though. >> >> From my point of view the NetBeans IDE should embrace the LSP sooner or >> later. I don't think LSP is just a fashion, and I think it's going to stay. >> Taking advantage of any third-party LSP tools would be great. >> >> Finally, I don't know if LSP is comparable to nb-javac, nor if they're >> incompatible. I'll have to dig deeper into nb-javac to understand to what >> extent is integrated into the NetBeans IDE, what it does and how it works. >> Any pointers on this, anyone? >> >> Cheers, >> Antonio >> >> >> El 14/11/17 a las 20:44, Geertjan Wielenga escribió: >> >>> What we want, is not so relevant, unfortunately. And asking anyone >>> anything >>> is a question of months, which we don’t have. Wider needs, great, let’s >>> work on those. >>> >>> In the meantime, what’s the best approach? Maybe putting these two >>> nb-javac >>> JARs on bitbucket and explicitly informing the user during installation >>> via >>> the installer wizard for agreement on theibeing downloaded and placed in >>> the correct locations locally? >>> >>> Gj >>> >>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2017 at 19:36, Neil C Smith <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2017, 18:54 Jan Lahoda, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Another aspect is from where to download the library: I assume we would >>>>> need a reasonably stable place to which we could point the users. >>>>> >>>>> Are there any opinions on this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> As before when this came up, as well as where it's downloaded from, I'd >>>> be >>>> interested to know how it's going to be maintained there? It feels hard >>>> to >>>> answer one question without the other? >>>> >>>> I also still wonder whether there's been further thought on asking the >>>> OpenJDK project to host it (as ide-javac)? The last time I suggested >>>> that >>>> there was a feeling that it was too NetBeans specific, and other >>>> projects >>>> were moving to things like Language Server Protocol. Just for the record >>>> (as I mentioned to Jaroslav a while back) of the two LSP plugins for >>>> Java, >>>> one is Eclipse based, and the other is using nb-javac. There is >>>> obviously a >>>> wider need for the features it brings! >>>> >>>> Best wishes, >>>> >>>> Neil >>>> >>>> -- >>>>> >>>> Neil C Smith >>>> Artist & Technologist >>>> www.neilcsmith.net >>>> >>>> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - >>>> www.praxislive.org >>>> >>>> >>> >
