Hi Jaroslav, Waiting for the maven downloads as I write. :)
Are there any tutorials or other cool documents out there about Apache HTML/Java UI? ~ Hermien On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Jaroslav Tulach <jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com > wrote: > Thanks a lot for your opinions! I am going to react to one recurring theme > in this email... > > 2018-03-12 16:59 GMT+01:00 Jaroslav Tulach <jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com>: > > > > > Forget about AWT, Swing and JavaFX - the future is HTML. In case you > still > > care about Java, then your future should be Apache HTML/Java API! > > > > > First of all I have to admit it drives me mad, how incapable I am in > communicating these ideas. How could I be the initial architect of > NetBeans, when I am not able to explain what HTML/Java API is beneficial > for? Or was I just the architect and there had to be others to handle the > public relations? Or was the success of NetBeans (Platform) just an > unrepeatable luck? > > Anyway, there have been few references to Electron framework in your > reactions to my email: > > > There is nothing better than creating UIs with HTML and use them > everywhere, like in the Electron Framework. > > ... look into electron apps ... like VS Code and I think this is a big > Player and you can see, that it performs very well and it is performant as > hell. > > OK, I can see people are looking (or at least googling) for alternatives to > current UIs. Yes, I agree HTML is one of (the best) options there - > especially if you want real WORA - e.g. also target plain browser. However > I have to say the following sentence is just increasing my internal > suffering... > > > heavyweight, ...(but)... the open source nature ... of Electron make it > potentially an attractive option for mixed Java/HTML applications > > We - the NetBeans (incubating) project - have such technology, it is > HTML/Java API. It has been intentionally designed to support mixed > Java/HTML applications. We are the community of the project! But instead of > improving what we have and making it work for our NetBeans IDE purposes > (which is certainly simpler than trying to use Electron designed for > something different; more on that later), we are looking at other project > and admiring their "open source nature"! > > Am I really doing so poor job that people aren't willing to dedicate 10 > minutes of their personal time to try HTML/Java API in action? Rather they > are looking... > > > I was looking at an example project using Vaadin running inside Electron > recently. Have you tried this approach with HTML/Java? > > ...and trying Electron samples! C'mon do you have recent version of > NetBeans 9.0? Then just select "New Project", "JavaFX", "Java HTML5 > Application" click through the wizard and choose Run/Debug on the generated > project! How much did it take? 30s of activity[1]? > > > I keep trying to find some time to experiment with Apache HTML/Java and > wondered at the feasibility of reworking that Electron example with it? > > If you give the NetBeans 9.0 support for HTML/Java UI a try, you see (when > using for example the Visual archetype) that rewriting visually rich > Electron application like > https://github.com/electron/simple-samples/tree/master/activity-monitor > should be a piece of cake. > > I consider it patriotic to try NetBeans own solution first. Am I completely > off? > > > Demo app showing all kind of features a given system allows me to use. > Like a toolbox, which I run and say - hey that's the component I need. Is > there something like this for the HTML+JAVA api? > > The visual archetype offers canvas sample, line charts and pie charts > sample and interactive GeoBase application. Isn't that enough? Then there > is another CRUD like archetype, as well as simple MVVM sample. All of them > are just few clicks from your reach ("New Project", "JavaFX", "Java HTML5 > Application"), is that enough to get started? > > I hope it is. Guys, please, instead of drinking your morning coffee, click > though the wizard and see Apache HTML/Java API in action yourself. I'll be > thankful for comments. As confessed, I am depressed by my inability to > communicate what our HTML/Java project can do for you. It may not be 100% > perfect fit, but it is so close to what you guys need.... Shame on me for > not being able to explain that! > > Thanks. > -js > > PS: Now let's look at what Electron isn't and why HTML/Java shall be a > better choice: > > > I am sure electron is good, but my personal preference is to not use a > web ide. > > I share your feelings. However we are not talking about Web IDE. We are > talking about reusing rendering pipeline that is behind HTML. Sure, this > pipeline is used in browsers, but that doesn't mean browser == the > rendering pipeline. Browser is much more and we don't need all of that. > > > Think about ... what Electron actually *is* ... > > Electron is the rendering pipeline, plus a bunch of libraries for dealing > with the surrounding operating system, plus JavaScript specific build > system. But, when writing Java application, why would you need those > libraries? Java has pretty rich operating system API (think of java.nio, > missing in JavaScript) and there are plenty of libraries to deal with other > aspects of OS integration. Why would you need npm build system? Java has > other, well established build systems as well. Conclusion? The only thing > you'd want from Electron is the rendering pipeline. > > But then: What is the HTML/Java project goal? To be a portable abstraction > over such pipeline! I would conclude that you don't want to look at > Electron to begin with! Again, I am ashamed of not being able to get my > message thru... > > > > Funfact: Without JavaFX you don't have a HTML5 renderer > > The truth is that we already have our existing Swing/JavaFX applications > and if we want to move towards HTML, we need an incremental way to migrate, > rather than big bang rewrite of everything. That is not at all what > Electron can give you! On the other hand that is something HTML/Java API > shines at. Because of using the JavaFX renderer (behind the scene), we can > easily mix the Swing and HTML UI in NetBeans IDE[2]. > > In any case having the Swing/HTML UI interop is real benefit for us. We can > mix both types of the UI right now. By having the renderer as an > implementation detail, we can replace it with better one in the future. > > PPS: Have any of the above (or below) convinced you to give HTML/Java API a > try or did I failed again to explain its benefits? > > [1] Plus few minutes of Maven plugins initial download time... > [2] Have you noticed that the wizard ("New Project", "JavaFX", "Java HTML5 > Application") is written in HTML UI? I hope the transition from the Swing > to the HTML UI was smooth enough to not be really noticeable. >
