Well, this cooperation is not always easy, we are spread around the planet and different people may have different mindsets, but as The One Big NuttX Community we have to do all we can to improve things so we all grow and create good useful elegant high quality results which is the ultimate goals for all of us... just as predicted and noted down by Greg Nutt in the INVIOLABLES.. I feel strong vibes of the Isaac Asimov's Foundation here! :-)
Recent months / years revealed problems we were all facing from various directions i.e. high amount but low quality commits without clearly visible planning, almost zero descriptions, no testing, breaking changes, etc. The community reaction was the Contributing Guidelines updates that aim to fix identified problems and improve overall project quality self-compatibility and long term maintenance. We have big dreams but limited resources so focus good organization and cooperation is most important here! On the other hand we have very nice recent NXINIT's (aka Android System Init on NuttX) related PRs with good descriptions and testing, useful and welcome functionality, actively discussed on our main communication channel that is dev@ mailing list. But for some reason these PRs were closed probably because of internal discussions and are about to be moved out from NuttX to OpenVela. This shows that our communication and planning needs improvement. https://github.com/apache/nuttx-apps/pull/3192 https://github.com/apache/nuttx/pull/17215 https://github.com/apache/nuttx/pull/17216 Yes community may have this feeling of NuttX project takeover. I am struggling with Lup as independent freelancers to create NXDART runtime testing framework and now it turns out Xiaomi is creating their alternative solution with zero consultation with the community while we talk about this for over a year now. Sometimes it seems more like competition rather than cooperation. This is problem of all Open-Source projects for instance one OS creates drivers that are not really portable to other OS (i.e. open source licensing issues!!!) so we fight each other and not really cooperate which is terrible waste of time energy resources and slows down all progress for everyone. Just as Greg noted, and I fully agree here, just to rephrase how I see this: 1. Communication problems result in lack of transparent planning that blocks smooth operations. All communications and planning should take place on the dev@ mailing list which is our main communication channel that can be archived and restored. Before code is implemented we should discuss the idea, architecture, solution, and then start working (aka think-before-you-act), so everyone knows what is happening and why. Some people understand that and already work that way some don't. But this is very important that we all understand why this is important and that we all work that way, so work is smooth and effective for everyone. 2. Big companies can hire more engineers than we have in the open source community. While the community consists of freelancers that need to fight for their own funding and free time for development. We have no kind of financial support as a project from anyone. This is kind of blocker.. and bummer. But this is life. Unfortunately no one wants to pay for the independent open source developers even if they use open source in millions of their products. This is a common problem worldwide. Open-Source contributions are important kind of return too. 3. We need more companies and individuals contributing to NuttX to be more diversified and get more multidirectional development. But companies are directed by their business decisions and goals. So far I can see a lot of small companies and independent freelancers in the community that takes project seriously even personally because their small income depends on the project quality. This is nice because we care and grow together. 4. We need more independent developers in the PMC just to get the balance of powers right and wider perspective. Bad things still can be blocked by a single person according to Apache voting rules. Lets keep the conservative Unix like design and approach in NuttX and people who likes it will come here bringing their own experiences, time, and work. People with similar values and mindset will join, other will probably choose other projects, this is fine. It is important to have choice and sometimes just understand each other without words. Professional experience allows seeing things from many different perspectives but with a rational distance that results in a better and more mature decision making. This makes results more deliberate coherent and high quality - I once worked in a small corporate team below 10 people that for years made better results than the whole building of competing team so I know this is possible! We are witnessing evolution of a big mature project and all these growing-pains are common for every organization. It is up to us to create amazing community that creates amazing project so let's stick together focus and follow our dreams to come true!! And the community is really amazing BIG THANK YOU! :-) Have a good day folks :-) Tomek On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08 AM Gregory Nutt <[email protected]> wrote: > > Actually, I think that Xiaomi is a great open source partner. I see > only two real issues: (1) There is a communication obstacle. We are not > included in the decision making process for the changes so many of the > changes are out-of-context for us and it is hard to be supportive of > changes that we do not know the background logic or motivations. (2) > The are many more Xiaomi engineers working on this project than the rest > of us. It is easy to feel like we are on the losing side a power struggle. > > Things I would like to see happen: > > - Improved technical communication from the earliest phases, not just > when the PR is generated for the finished code. > > - Involve more motivated companies involved in NuttX development to > assure we have a thoughtful, balanced approach to the development. > > - Get more diversity in the PMC -- people with other backgrounds and values. > > These are all things that would promote a balance of power (and, hence, > more trust) and assure a better OS. > > On 10/27/25 16:51, Sebastien Lorquet wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have no more hard feeling about this now. it is done. > > > > I just think that this is interesting context information that would > > have be very valuable to understand the "almost take over" by xiaomi > > that I resisted a few months ago. > > > > If I had known that it was part of the "big plan for nuttx" I would > > have managed it very differently. > > > > Now I feel dumb, I was considered as a remote outsider, even though I > > was contributing to this project (or was very interested in its > > existence) since 2013. Many of you knew that this take over was "by > > design" and said nothing for litterally years. > > > > That explains the continuous shower of commits I complained about, for > > example. > > > > You could still have taken the hard decisions without public > > consultation, but explained then sooner. > > > > I also feel that the apache project was just a decoration to > > legitimate this takeover by xiaomi in an "acceptable way". > > > > I dont regret my previous rants. > > > > Sebastien > > > > > > On 10/27/25 22:25, Alan C. Assis wrote: > >> Sebastien, > >> > >> It wasn't "DURING" the apache migration, actually it was Xiaomi that > >> convinced Greg to donate NuttX to Apache. > >> > >> Before that we had a frustrating experience with Samsung trying to move > >> NuttX to the Linux Foundation. > >> > >> I don't think it was discussed in the mailing list. > >> > >> BR, > >> > >> Alan > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 27, 2025 at 6:07 PM Sebastien Lorquet <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I dont remember this being discussed on the mailing list. > >>> > >>> I just remember the almost forceful push to make nuttx an apache > >>> incubator project during christmas holidays while everyone was busy > >>> with > >>> end of year activities and unavailable to discuss deeply on the > >>> original > >>> mailing list. > >>> > >>> It's over now and I have a bad memory, but negotiations with xiaomi > >>> DURING the apache migration was not something I was aware of. > >>> > >>> Am I alone in this situation? I might as well have missed it. > >>> > >>> In fact, a search in my email archive with terms "nuttx xiaomi sidrane > >>> china" finds exactly *nothing* except your message, Alan. > >>> > >>> Sebastien > >>> > >>> > >>> On 10/27/25 19:49, Alan C. Assis wrote: > >>>> Actually it should be better saying they played a key role moving > >>>> NuttX > >>> to > >>>> Incubation at Apache Foundation in 2018. > >>>> > >>>> Xiaomi helped in the process to transfer NuttX to Apache Foundation. > >>>> > >>>> Greg and David Sidrane traveled to China to discuss this process with > >>> them. > >>>> BR, > >>>> > >>>> Alan > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2025 at 2:43 PM Sebastien Lorquet > >>>> <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It played a key role in promoting NuttX to become an Apache top-level > >>>>> project in 2022 ??? > >>>>> > >>>>> Sebstien > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 10/27/25 18:26, Gregory Nutt wrote: > >>>>>> This article is showing up in sever sites across the web: > >>>>>> > >>> https://www.inyoregister.com/online_features/press_releases/openvelas-inaugural-global-developer-conference-concludes-successfully-nuttx-founder-gregory-nutt-joins-to-shape-aiot/article_4440fb40-ce11-5663-b4bf-288e25031cd8.html > >>> > >>> -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
