Btw, don't get me wrong. I don't say you should not start implementing WSHT or anything else inside Ode. I'm just saying that *aiming* at being an umbrella project is not the best thing to do.
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:41, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:00, Tammo van Lessen <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> okay, first I agree that integrating and sharing code of multiple sub >> projects into one repository with one build system makes sense and makes >> integration, testing etc. easier. Although I think they should be >> packaged separately (e.g. as mvn bundles and dists) as WSHT >> implementations are probably also interesting for people not necessarily >> interested in ODE. I think the Solr/Lucene guys did some similar merge. >> >> If those subprojects are consumable independantly, they may be better as > two peer TLPs at the end. > Because you will end up in two different communities: some new committers > will be involved in one > project but not the other. > > Anyway, it mostly depend on the size of the subprojects and the size of > their respective communities. > You'd better start either in the incubator or in ode, and see what the > status is in one year. > > >> Regarding umbrellas: No matter if it's called bpm.apache.org or >> ode.apache.org, it will probably become an umbrella. I understand that >> the ASF likes top-level-projects, but I personally find it very >> difficult currently to find projects that are related, belong together >> or are intended to be used together, simply because their names not >> really suggest that they belong to a certain domain. That's why I >> actually really like ws.apache.org or db.apache.org because I always >> know what I can expect to find there. >> >> > FWIW, Apache Web Services is being kinda dismantled as Axis is being spin > off as a TLP. > And the names you refer to (ws and db) would actually never be accepted as > new TLP afaik. > Because the ASF does not have any technical vision / roadmap / strategy, > you can have > multiple TLP on the same domain (consider CXF / Axis, but there are other > examples too). > So having a bpm.apache.org would not be possible I think. > > The fact that it's difficult to find projects for a given technology is > irrelevant to the fact that they > are grouped into a single TLP or not I think. For that, the > projects.apache.org site should be > improved imo. > > >> Tammo >> >> On 07.06.2010 15:47, Rafal Rusin wrote: >> > I think growing ODE is the way to go, because in the end, things will be >> > integrated, which means a lot. >> > >> > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> Last time I looked, umbrella projects were still frowned upon at the >> ASF >> >> ... >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 15:32, Tammo van Lessen <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi guys, >> >>> >> >>> I'd like to raise a discussion about the ecosystem at Apache around >> ODE >> >>> in particular and BPM in general. >> >>> >> >>> While ODE is getting mature and provides a stable BPEL execution, the >> >>> BPM market is moving on, bringing up new languages (BPMN 2.0), new >> human >> >>> task definitions (WSHT), new integrations (BPEL4People), new projects >> >>> (Apache Hise), new adopters (JBoss Riftsaw), etc. >> >>> >> >>> I think it is time to discuss not only an adjusted road map for ODE >> >>> (adding support for BPMN 2.0 and BPEL4People/WSHT) but also the BPM >> >>> ecosystem at Apache. >> >>> >> >>> Apache Hise is currently under incubation and ODE is the sponsoring >> PMC. >> >>> There may also be other BPM related projects that may want to find >> their >> >>> home at Apache, but not necessarily under the umbrella of ODE, which >> >>> would directly connect them with BPEL and/or process execution. >> >>> >> >>> I think we should think about founding a BPM umbrella PMC at Apache >> the >> >>> can serve as the home of Ode, Hise, and whatever BPMish project that >> >>> will come up in future. Honestly, this is yet just an uncooked idea, >> but >> >>> I'd like to get your opinions on that. WDYT? >> >>> >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> Tammo >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Cheers, >> >> Guillaume Nodet >> >> ------------------------ >> >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ >> >> ------------------------ >> >> Open Source SOA >> >> http://fusesource.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de >> > > > > -- > Cheers, > Guillaume Nodet > ------------------------ > Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ > ------------------------ > Open Source SOA > http://fusesource.com > > > -- Cheers, Guillaume Nodet ------------------------ Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ ------------------------ Open Source SOA http://fusesource.com
