IMHO, as the first step, we should try to bring ODE, Apache Hise, and BPEL4Peple implementation together and do a release which provide basic BPM tools. WDYT?
Thanks Milinda On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Paul Fremantle <[email protected]> wrote: > There is a balance to be had here. Firstly, the idea of super-projects > and sub-projects is tricky. I personally think that in this case it > might have some merit, but I agree with others I don't think its going > to fly just now. But maybe the approach will change. > > However, I'm very positive about Tammo's overall goals here: I'd > really like to see a more co-ordinated and active roadmap and and > encourage people to see that we have focussed plans around BPM. I'm > certainly willing to help out with whatever I can. > > Paul > > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> wrote: > > Btw, don't get me wrong. I don't say you should not start implementing > WSHT > > or anything else inside Ode. > > I'm just saying that *aiming* at being an umbrella project is not the > best > > thing to do. > > > > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:41, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:00, Tammo van Lessen <[email protected] > >wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> okay, first I agree that integrating and sharing code of multiple sub > >>> projects into one repository with one build system makes sense and > makes > >>> integration, testing etc. easier. Although I think they should be > >>> packaged separately (e.g. as mvn bundles and dists) as WSHT > >>> implementations are probably also interesting for people not > necessarily > >>> interested in ODE. I think the Solr/Lucene guys did some similar merge. > >>> > >>> If those subprojects are consumable independantly, they may be better > as > >> two peer TLPs at the end. > >> Because you will end up in two different communities: some new > committers > >> will be involved in one > >> project but not the other. > >> > >> Anyway, it mostly depend on the size of the subprojects and the size of > >> their respective communities. > >> You'd better start either in the incubator or in ode, and see what the > >> status is in one year. > >> > >> > >>> Regarding umbrellas: No matter if it's called bpm.apache.org or > >>> ode.apache.org, it will probably become an umbrella. I understand that > >>> the ASF likes top-level-projects, but I personally find it very > >>> difficult currently to find projects that are related, belong together > >>> or are intended to be used together, simply because their names not > >>> really suggest that they belong to a certain domain. That's why I > >>> actually really like ws.apache.org or db.apache.org because I always > >>> know what I can expect to find there. > >>> > >>> > >> FWIW, Apache Web Services is being kinda dismantled as Axis is being > spin > >> off as a TLP. > >> And the names you refer to (ws and db) would actually never be accepted > as > >> new TLP afaik. > >> Because the ASF does not have any technical vision / roadmap / strategy, > >> you can have > >> multiple TLP on the same domain (consider CXF / Axis, but there are > other > >> examples too). > >> So having a bpm.apache.org would not be possible I think. > >> > >> The fact that it's difficult to find projects for a given technology is > >> irrelevant to the fact that they > >> are grouped into a single TLP or not I think. For that, the > >> projects.apache.org site should be > >> improved imo. > >> > >> > >>> Tammo > >>> > >>> On 07.06.2010 15:47, Rafal Rusin wrote: > >>> > I think growing ODE is the way to go, because in the end, things will > be > >>> > integrated, which means a lot. > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Last time I looked, umbrella projects were still frowned upon at the > >>> ASF > >>> >> ... > >>> >> > >>> >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 15:32, Tammo van Lessen < > [email protected]> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >>> Hi guys, > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I'd like to raise a discussion about the ecosystem at Apache around > >>> ODE > >>> >>> in particular and BPM in general. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> While ODE is getting mature and provides a stable BPEL execution, > the > >>> >>> BPM market is moving on, bringing up new languages (BPMN 2.0), new > >>> human > >>> >>> task definitions (WSHT), new integrations (BPEL4People), new > projects > >>> >>> (Apache Hise), new adopters (JBoss Riftsaw), etc. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I think it is time to discuss not only an adjusted road map for ODE > >>> >>> (adding support for BPMN 2.0 and BPEL4People/WSHT) but also the BPM > >>> >>> ecosystem at Apache. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Apache Hise is currently under incubation and ODE is the sponsoring > >>> PMC. > >>> >>> There may also be other BPM related projects that may want to find > >>> their > >>> >>> home at Apache, but not necessarily under the umbrella of ODE, > which > >>> >>> would directly connect them with BPEL and/or process execution. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I think we should think about founding a BPM umbrella PMC at Apache > >>> the > >>> >>> can serve as the home of Ode, Hise, and whatever BPMish project > that > >>> >>> will come up in future. Honestly, this is yet just an uncooked > idea, > >>> but > >>> >>> I'd like to get your opinions on that. WDYT? > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Thanks, > >>> >>> Tammo > >>> >>> > >>> >>> -- > >>> >>> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de > >>> >>> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> -- > >>> >> Cheers, > >>> >> Guillaume Nodet > >>> >> ------------------------ > >>> >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ > >>> >> ------------------------ > >>> >> Open Source SOA > >>> >> http://fusesource.com > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Cheers, > >> Guillaume Nodet > >> ------------------------ > >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ > >> ------------------------ > >> Open Source SOA > >> http://fusesource.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Cheers, > > Guillaume Nodet > > ------------------------ > > Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ > > ------------------------ > > Open Source SOA > > http://fusesource.com > > > > > > -- > Paul Fremantle > Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2 > Apache Synapse PMC Chair > OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair > > blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org > [email protected] > > "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com > -- Milinda Pathirage Technical Lead & Product Manager WSO2 BPS; http://wso2.org/bps WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com E-mail: [email protected], [email protected] Web: http://mpathirage.com Blog: http://blog.mpathirage.com
