Sounds very good. On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 9:54 AM, Milinda Pathirage < [email protected]> wrote:
> IMHO, as the first step, we should try to bring ODE, Apache Hise, and > BPEL4Peple implementation together and do a release which provide basic BPM > tools. WDYT? > > Thanks > Milinda > > On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Paul Fremantle <[email protected]> wrote: > > > There is a balance to be had here. Firstly, the idea of super-projects > > and sub-projects is tricky. I personally think that in this case it > > might have some merit, but I agree with others I don't think its going > > to fly just now. But maybe the approach will change. > > > > However, I'm very positive about Tammo's overall goals here: I'd > > really like to see a more co-ordinated and active roadmap and and > > encourage people to see that we have focussed plans around BPM. I'm > > certainly willing to help out with whatever I can. > > > > Paul > > > > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Btw, don't get me wrong. I don't say you should not start implementing > > WSHT > > > or anything else inside Ode. > > > I'm just saying that *aiming* at being an umbrella project is not the > > best > > > thing to do. > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:41, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 17:00, Tammo van Lessen <[email protected] > > >wrote: > > >> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> okay, first I agree that integrating and sharing code of multiple sub > > >>> projects into one repository with one build system makes sense and > > makes > > >>> integration, testing etc. easier. Although I think they should be > > >>> packaged separately (e.g. as mvn bundles and dists) as WSHT > > >>> implementations are probably also interesting for people not > > necessarily > > >>> interested in ODE. I think the Solr/Lucene guys did some similar > merge. > > >>> > > >>> If those subprojects are consumable independantly, they may be better > > as > > >> two peer TLPs at the end. > > >> Because you will end up in two different communities: some new > > committers > > >> will be involved in one > > >> project but not the other. > > >> > > >> Anyway, it mostly depend on the size of the subprojects and the size > of > > >> their respective communities. > > >> You'd better start either in the incubator or in ode, and see what the > > >> status is in one year. > > >> > > >> > > >>> Regarding umbrellas: No matter if it's called bpm.apache.org or > > >>> ode.apache.org, it will probably become an umbrella. I understand > that > > >>> the ASF likes top-level-projects, but I personally find it very > > >>> difficult currently to find projects that are related, belong > together > > >>> or are intended to be used together, simply because their names not > > >>> really suggest that they belong to a certain domain. That's why I > > >>> actually really like ws.apache.org or db.apache.org because I always > > >>> know what I can expect to find there. > > >>> > > >>> > > >> FWIW, Apache Web Services is being kinda dismantled as Axis is being > > spin > > >> off as a TLP. > > >> And the names you refer to (ws and db) would actually never be > accepted > > as > > >> new TLP afaik. > > >> Because the ASF does not have any technical vision / roadmap / > strategy, > > >> you can have > > >> multiple TLP on the same domain (consider CXF / Axis, but there are > > other > > >> examples too). > > >> So having a bpm.apache.org would not be possible I think. > > >> > > >> The fact that it's difficult to find projects for a given technology > is > > >> irrelevant to the fact that they > > >> are grouped into a single TLP or not I think. For that, the > > >> projects.apache.org site should be > > >> improved imo. > > >> > > >> > > >>> Tammo > > >>> > > >>> On 07.06.2010 15:47, Rafal Rusin wrote: > > >>> > I think growing ODE is the way to go, because in the end, things > will > > be > > >>> > integrated, which means a lot. > > >>> > > > >>> > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> >> Last time I looked, umbrella projects were still frowned upon at > the > > >>> ASF > > >>> >> ... > > >>> >> > > >>> >> On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 15:32, Tammo van Lessen < > > [email protected]> > > >>> >> wrote: > > >>> >> > > >>> >>> Hi guys, > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> I'd like to raise a discussion about the ecosystem at Apache > around > > >>> ODE > > >>> >>> in particular and BPM in general. > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> While ODE is getting mature and provides a stable BPEL execution, > > the > > >>> >>> BPM market is moving on, bringing up new languages (BPMN 2.0), > new > > >>> human > > >>> >>> task definitions (WSHT), new integrations (BPEL4People), new > > projects > > >>> >>> (Apache Hise), new adopters (JBoss Riftsaw), etc. > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> I think it is time to discuss not only an adjusted road map for > ODE > > >>> >>> (adding support for BPMN 2.0 and BPEL4People/WSHT) but also the > BPM > > >>> >>> ecosystem at Apache. > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> Apache Hise is currently under incubation and ODE is the > sponsoring > > >>> PMC. > > >>> >>> There may also be other BPM related projects that may want to > find > > >>> their > > >>> >>> home at Apache, but not necessarily under the umbrella of ODE, > > which > > >>> >>> would directly connect them with BPEL and/or process execution. > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> I think we should think about founding a BPM umbrella PMC at > Apache > > >>> the > > >>> >>> can serve as the home of Ode, Hise, and whatever BPMish project > > that > > >>> >>> will come up in future. Honestly, this is yet just an uncooked > > idea, > > >>> but > > >>> >>> I'd like to get your opinions on that. WDYT? > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> Thanks, > > >>> >>> Tammo > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> -- > > >>> >>> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de > > >>> >>> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> -- > > >>> >> Cheers, > > >>> >> Guillaume Nodet > > >>> >> ------------------------ > > >>> >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ > > >>> >> ------------------------ > > >>> >> Open Source SOA > > >>> >> http://fusesource.com > > >>> >> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Tammo van Lessen - http://www.taval.de > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Cheers, > > >> Guillaume Nodet > > >> ------------------------ > > >> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ > > >> ------------------------ > > >> Open Source SOA > > >> http://fusesource.com > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Cheers, > > > Guillaume Nodet > > > ------------------------ > > > Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/ > > > ------------------------ > > > Open Source SOA > > > http://fusesource.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Fremantle > > Co-Founder and CTO, WSO2 > > Apache Synapse PMC Chair > > OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair > > > > blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org > > [email protected] > > > > "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com > > > > > > -- > Milinda Pathirage > Technical Lead & Product Manager WSO2 BPS; http://wso2.org/bps > WSO2 Inc.; http://wso2.com > E-mail: [email protected], [email protected] > Web: http://mpathirage.com > Blog: http://blog.mpathirage.com > -- Regards, Rafał Rusin http://rrusin.blogspot.com
