What does justice have to do with this? Also, is justice really a priority for people?
I'll state clearly that it is not for me. Justice is highly subjective and usually just a nice way of saying "revenge". -David On Mar 7, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > From: "Scott Gray" <[email protected]> >>> I should be pretty clear at this moment. The works "Apache" "OFBiz" and the >>> phrase "Apache OFBiz" are ASF trademarks: >>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ (I use references to sections of >>> this page in the following) >>> So they can't be used in domain name (cf. section "Using Apache trademarks >>> in domain names"). Hans can't use >>> http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz alone as an individual or for his company. > >> This is a domain name: twitter.com >> This is a URL: twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > > Yes I was wrong on that one, so I can see no problems with > http://twitter.com/ofbizbyhotwax or http://twitter.com/ofbiz_help and I'm > happy with that. > >> So the first half of your message is completely invalid and threatening to >> contact higher level ASF admins before discussing it on >> the private list is bad form IMO. > > Not completly, some arguments still stand and it would have been easier if > you have kept them in your answer. Notably the name+logo > on http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz which was the main reason I wrote this > message. I must say that in an effort to not put all on > this Tweeter account I thought about this wrong domain idea. > >> Secondly, use of the OFBiz name and logo on service provider websites >> absolutely falls within the realm of nominative fair use IMO. >> How are you supposed to offer development and support services for OFBiz if >> you cannot mention the name OFBiz and display the logo? > > Yes in most cases it's fair and I did not reproach anything else about that > than on http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz > >> The fact that some logo uses do not link back to the project is a minor >> issue and can easily be rectified without scaremongering by >> sending a polite message directly to the service provider in question. > > If people are aware of it, why they did not do it then? This was the reason > of my message. When you want justice, you can't hide > facts, even minor ones. > >> Let's be clear, we want people to market OFBiz for us because we do not have >> the resources to do an adequate job of it ourselves. >> The thing that I think we should be most concerned about and actively >> "police" is what is written at the bottom of the ASF >> guideline document: > "Nothing in this ASF policy statement shall be interpreted to allow any third > party to claim any association with the Apache > Software Foundation or any of its projects or to imply any approval or > support by ASF for any third party products or services." > > Yes that's the point, I totally agree > >> We should be encouraging people to market OFBiz and instead of sending out >> threatening emails. > > If things are clean and follow the rule it's fine with me > >> And lastly, haven't there been enough arguments on the dev list for one >> week? Do you really need to spark another one right now? >> Constant bickering just makes us all look bad. > > Bickering is a new word for me, thanks for that. I don't care about lookin > "bad", I just want justice. > > Jacques > > Regards > Scott > > On 7/03/2010, at 7:20 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > >> Scott, >> >> Could you explain which part(s) I'm mis-interpreting and what is irrelevant >> in my message? >> >> Jacques >> >> From: "Scott Gray" <[email protected]> >> Jacques, you are mis-interpreting the contents of that ASF document and I >> really would prefer it if you kept your thoughts to the >> private list. This way we can correct you before you start scaring people >> away from marketing the project for us. >> >> Thank you >> Scott >> >> On 7/03/2010, at 2:20 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >> >>> Hey guys, >>> >>> This could be so easy :/ >>> >>> Hans agreed to give the credentials to all commiters but he asked us to >>> send him a demand. >>> We don't need to ask, if it's open Hans sould send all commiters the >>> credential to share apache_ofbiz Twitter account. >>> I should be pretty clear at this moment. The works "Apache" "OFBiz" and the >>> phrase "Apache OFBiz" are ASF trademarks: >>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ (I use references to sections of >>> this page in the following) >>> So they can't be used in domain name (cf. section "Using Apache trademarks >>> in domain names"). Hans can't use >>> http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz alone as an individual or for his company. >>> So please, for the last time, Hans before I ring Shane Curcuru's bell >>> (current VP, Apache Brand Management), simply send >>> credentials to all commiters and the war is over (Note that, though I don't >>> think it's the way to go, I already asked you to send >>> me credentials as you suggested, but did not receive anything yet). Then I >>> suggest to put the button like you did Hans. It's a >>> *great idea* and I'm sure you will appreciate to have an help on feeding >>> the tweets as you already suggested. >>> >>> http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz is a special case because not only it uses >>> ASF trademark in domain name but it also shows it on >>> the page, along with OFBiz logo not going back to http://ofbiz.apache.org/ >>> (cf. section "Using the Apache Foo (and similar) >>> graphic logos") >>> But I don't see a reason why the rule for the domain should not apply also >>> to >>> http://twitter.com/ofbiz_help >>> http://twitter.com/ofbizbyhotwax >>> And Hans just followed the path actually... (is there other cases?) >>> >>> Some other points which are related and worth to be noted >>> Hotwax Media must care about how they use the OFBiz logo in their pages at >>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com. The rule is that if it's >>> not adapted (like Hans did for OFBiz in Thailand at , it should only link >>> back to http://ofbiz.apache.org/ >>> Same for the footer of http://www.antwebsystems.com/control/main (the >>> "OFBiz feather" used for the tweet could be ok if all >>> commiters get credentials and the PMC agree is the OFBiz official Tweeter >>> account). Now http://www.ofbiz.in.th/ is wrong also as >>> long it's not on the ASF infra (ofbiz should not be used in domain name >>> outsided of ASF infrastructure, is there other cases?) >>> >>> It's time to clean the house, before all this becomes unmanageable >>> (proliferation). I made my best to explain the rules, if you >>> see a flaw in my reasoning please correct me. If you see other cases that >>> should be corrected, chime in, it's your duty! >>> >>> And please also understand that it's really not pleaseant for me (or anyone >>> else I guess) to play the cop and spend so much time >>> on this (for persons out of PMC, we already shared some about this >>> privately). I dot it only because I'm a third party (ie not >>> HWM affiliated nor Ant Web) and I like things to be clear and no injustices >>> prevail. If we continue to ignore this facts they >>> will finally blow up in our faces (as this Tweeter account issue being to >>> show) and nobody will win anything. There are rules, >>> why not simply follow them, is that so hard? >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> >>> From: "Tim Ruppert" <[email protected]> >>>> Hans, please revert this one too - sorry. It wouldn't make sense for all >>>> service providers to do this - so please let's not >>>> keep doing this stuff. >>>> >>>> What i would recommend for this kind of stuff, if we need to list it at >>>> all, would be to enhance the service providers page on >>>> the wiki. I mentioned this earlier but maybe we should add a full page, >>>> linked from the service provider page, where people >>>> can put this type of info? I personally think this is what your own >>>> website is for, but I'm all for enhancing everyone's >>>> ability to get the word out. >>>> >>>> What does everyone think of that as a place to promote yourself? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ruppert >>>> -- >>>> Tim Ruppert >>>> HotWax Media >>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com >>>> >>>> o:801.649.6594 >>>> f:801.649.6595 >>>> >>>> On Mar 6, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Scott Gray <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm only going to send one email about this, If anyone else cares they >>>>> can push it. >>>>> >>>>> This is news: >>>>>> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/apache_ofbiz/"; target="_blank">Now >>>>>> OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>, follow the news from an enduser >>>>>> perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day. >>>>> A link to your home page is not: >>>>>> You can also promote OFBiz at your site with this news, look <a >>>>>> href="http://www.antwebsystems.com";>here for an example.</a> >>>>> >>>>> Why you are constantly trying to push the boundaries I have no idea. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> Scott >>>>> >>>>> On 6/03/2010, at 6:14 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Author: hansbak >>>>>> Date: Sun Mar 7 01:14:19 2010 >>>>>> New Revision: 919905 >>>>>> >>>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=919905&view=rev >>>>>> Log: >>>>>> announcing the ofbiz twitter news now in line with the other news >>>>>> offerings. >>>>>> >>>>>> Modified: >>>>>> ofbiz/site/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> Modified: ofbiz/site/index.html >>>>>> URL: >>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/ofbiz/site/index.html?rev=919905&r1=919904&r2=919905&view=diff >>>>>> === === === >>>>>> ===================================================================== >>>>>> --- ofbiz/site/index.html (original) >>>>>> +++ ofbiz/site/index.html Sun Mar 7 01:14:19 2010 >>>>>> @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ >>>>>> >>>>>> <h2>In the News</h2> >>>>>> <ul> >>>>>> + <li><a href="http://www.twitter.com/ apache_ofbiz/" >>>>>> target="_blank">Now OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>, follow >>>>>> the news from an enduser perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day. You >>>>>> can also promote OFBiz at your site with this news, >>>>>> look <a href="http://www.antwebsystems.com";>here for an example.</a></li> >>>>>> <li><a >>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-pdf-export/ >>>>>> " >>>>>> target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial â?" Implementing a Product PDF >>>>>> export</a> on <a >>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" >>>>>> target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li> >>>>>> <li><a >>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-csv-export/ >>>>>> " >>>>>> target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial â?" Implementing a Product CSV >>>>>> export</a> on <a >>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" >>>>>> target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li> >>>>>> <li><a >>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-enhancing-the-product-list-screen/ >>>>>> " >>>>>> target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial â?" Enhancing the Product list >>>>>> screen</a> on <a >>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" >>>>>> target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >
