Hi all,

I think I agree more with Alexandre and Ramesh to 
> "Put it on the GitHub repo and wait for the project to reach an adequate 
> maturity."

Or to repeat myself:
> IMHO I also think we should keep the barrier for contributions low. Hence 
> using a GitHub repository as starting point could be a good decision.
> This way contributing and building the first releases (alpha, beta, 
> whatever…) are completely independent from Apache (and any ICLA).
> Afterward when the JPA extension project has contributors and a own 
> “community” it could be moved into a official Apache Git and under the OData 
> umbrella aka. Olingo  ;o)
> tldr; Start with a low entry barrier on GitHub and end with a JPA extension 
> in Olingo (on Apache)

Best Regards, Michael

> On 14 Oct 2016, at 15:48, Alexandre Desjardins <bd.je...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems like Apache GitHub integration 
> is currently fairly lackluster. It does not seem to seamlessly integrate with 
> a lot of GitHub main features. For example, it does not seem to integrate 
> with GitHub issues, which is a big part of what makes a GitHub repository 
> "lively". As it stands, you mostly end up with a shell of what a GitHub 
> repository should be.
> With that in mind, contributors would probably have to get familiar with the 
> jira issues and the ASF repository overall. If you add that to the fact that 
> contributors would also have to sign an ICLA, I think this would deter a lot 
> of potential small contributors. Also, it could be confusing to have an Alpha 
> under Olingo that is not officially supported or that might be dropped at any 
> time.
> Personally, I think either :
> - Put it on the GitHub repo and wait for the project to reach an adequate 
> maturity. (Maybe have some kind of link or encouragement from the main Olingo 
> site)
> or
> - Put it on the ASF repo in Alpha but officially support it
> Alexandre
> On 2016-10-14 9:24 AM, Ramesh Reddy wrote:
>> GitHub repo is created to capture the early enthusiasm of community 
>> contributors without much restrictions of ICLA and ASF and also to gauge the 
>> interest of the participant to drive the feature to the somewhat of a mature 
>> state. If Olingo starts adapting all the extensions which are not directly 
>> involved with implementing the OData specification, it is just going to 
>> spread the current limited resources too thin and quality of our offering 
>> will surely to take hit. When PMC thinks that module has reached sufficient 
>> maturity and/or sustained interest, PMC to vote on bringing it under ASF 
>> repos and making the individuals part of the committers.
>> Also even though we think Olingo has been established as umbrella project, 
>> our builds except of V2 vs V4 have not been set up to bring these kind of 
>> extensions in a non dependent fashion. This separate build/release process 
>> and code repositories absolutely must be there. If we are willing to take 
>> these steps, you will have my vote for it.
>> Ramesh..
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> On 14/10/2016 10:35, Amend, Christian wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I would like to reanimate this discussion. I have been trying to find
>>>> information about having an Repository which is not under Apache control
>>>> as part of an Apache project but I could not find any useful information
>>>> about this.
>>>> In my personal opinion we should not use the GitHub repository because as
>>>> an Apache project we should rely on Apache infrastructure. This allows all
>>>> Olingo PMC members to have committing rights and prevents a single person
>>>> from having to provide/own the GitHub repository.
>>>> Also I would see this as a good way to attract users/contributers to Olingo
>>>> which we might miss if the connection between the GitHub repository and
>>>> the Apache Olingo project isn`t clear.
>>>> Also in my opinion we would not lose anything by providing an Alpha version
>>>> via Olingo. If there is no feedback or contributions coming we can still
>>>> decide not to take this forward. This would also mean that the current
>>>> Olingo PMC members do not have to provide support for the Alpha version.
>>>> Here is a link on the Apache to GitHub features:
>>>> https://reference.apache.org/pmc/github for those interested. These
>>>> features could be useful to integrate the GitHub mirror more.
>>>> Please consider the points above and let me know what you think!
>>> I have already expressed my preference below: a GIT repository, hosted
>>> at the ASF infrastructure, with full-fledged GitHub integration.
>>> We will not loose anything about attracting extra-ASF contribution, but
>>> as PMC we will retain control over the repository itself.
>>> Obviously, this will require contributors to sign an ICLA, but I urge to
>>> remind that this is the one of the pillars of how The ASF works.
>>> If this is seen as too onerous and discouraging new contributors, then
>>> simply The ASF is not the right place to be and the V4 JPA effort should
>>> better find its home as one of the numerous github-homed open source
>>> projects in the wild.
>>> With no official relationship with the Apache Olingo PMC, naturally.
>>> Regards.
>>>> From: mibo [mailto:m...@apache.org]
>>>> Sent: Samstag, 24. September 2016 06:56
>>>> To: Grande, Oliver <oliver.gra...@sap.com>; dev@olingo.apache.org
>>>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] V4 JPA contribution
>>>> IMHO I also think we should keep the barrier for further contributors (and
>>>> contributions) to the JPA extension low.
>>>> Hence using a GitHub repository as starting point could be a good decision.
>>>> This way contributing and building the first releases (alpha, beta,
>>>> whatever…) are completely independent from Apache (and any ICLA).
>>>> Afterward when the JPA extension project has contributors and a own
>>>> “community” it could be moved into a official Apache Git and under the
>>>> OData umbrella aka. Olingo  ;o)
>>>> And if all works well the time between start on GitHub and then move to
>>>> Olingo must not be long and could also include the direct promotion of
>>>> Oliver to a Olingo committer / PMC (if he wish  ;o)
>>>> tldr; Start with a low entry barrier on GitHub and end (after some time)
>>>> with a JPA extension in Olingo (on Apache)
>>>> Best Regards, Michael
>>>> Am 23. September 2016 um 16:04:16, Grande, Oliver
>>>> (oliver.gra...@sap.com<mailto:oliver.gra...@sap.com>) schrieb:
>>>> Hello,
>>>> as I'm new to Apache and Open Source I have the feeling that I can't help
>>>> finding the right way is to handle my contribution.
>>>> My idea was to contribute to the JPA processor after an initial
>>>> contribution, as I see it only as a starting point.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Oliver
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ramesh Reddy [mailto:rare...@redhat.com]
>>>> Sent: Freitag, 23. September 2016 15:18
>>>> To: dev@olingo.apache.org<mailto:dev@olingo.apache.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] V4 JPA contribution
>>>> IMO, creating the JIRA and promoting the extensions available on main
>>>> Olingo website should not be an issue. Many projects do that such
>>>> promotions, it is good for both parties, shows the whole eco-system around
>>>> the main project.
>>>> Another note I would like to emphasize is, if Oliver Grande contributed
>>>> initial code, it is not necessary that he is the only one needs to take
>>>> responsibility to integrate or complete it. Anyone of you with similar
>>>> needs for JPA could continue the Oliver's work.
>>>> Ramesh..
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Has anyone officially been in contact with Oliver Grande since his
>>>>> contribution? I know he is active on the user list, but I think it would
>>>>> be nice to have his opinion regarding all of this.
>>>>> I personally think creating a github repo and giving access to Oliver
>>>>> Grande is indeed a good idea. If the ASF repo is not used, I still think
>>>>> it would be nice to keep some kind of link with the main Olingo project
>>>>> to let users know that the "main Olingo team" encourages contribution to
>>>>> this JPA processor. Currently there is "odata4-JPA" listed as a Olingo
>>>>> component, which leads to a summary with the POC jira items. Just an
>>>>> idea, but would it be possible to delete the POC jira items and maybe
>>>>> have that "odata4-JPA" summary link to the JPA processor potential
>>>>> github repo?
>>>>> Alexandre
>>>>> On 2016-09-21 11:09 AM, Amend, Christian wrote:
>>>>>> This is a valid point. If we put this code into an ASF repository the
>>>>>> Olingo project as a whole is somewhat responsible for this code. This
>>>>>> risk
>>>>>> could be reduced by making the contributor Oliver Grande an Olingo
>>>>>> committer so he could keep working on the code. He also started answering
>>>>>> mails on the users list already so he seems committed. Of course adding
>>>>>> another committer would require a vote on the private mailing list and
>>>>>> requires the consent of the Olingo project.
>>>>>> We could also think about giving commit access to the separate Git
>>>>>> repository more freely to users that ask for it. This might also be an
>>>>>> incentive for more contributions. I think it is possible to give commit
>>>>>> access only to the new repository while leaving the core repo alone.
>>>>>> We could also ask for volunteers on the user mailing list while clearly
>>>>>> stating that we won`t accept this contribution to Olingo if there are not
>>>>>> enough users that promise to contribute. Having an Alpha release could
>>>>>> also help identify potential committers. And I don`t think that an Alpha
>>>>>> release would require maintenance from the current Olingo PMC/committers.
>>>>>> As for being cumbersome to work with the Apache repositories I agree. But
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> also heard that Apache is working on a tighter integration with the
>>>>>> GitHub
>>>>>> mirror. I am not sure how far this has progressed. Do you know anything
>>>>>> about this?
>>>>>> I personally would object to another separate Apache project for a JPA
>>>>>> implementation. IMHO Olingo is the OData umbrella project at Apache.
>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Ramesh Reddy [mailto:rare...@redhat.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 21. September 2016 16:47
>>>>>> To: dev@olingo.apache.org<mailto:dev@olingo.apache.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] V4 JPA contribution
>>>>>> IMO, at least there are two reasons for me
>>>>>> - Working with ASF repository is cumbersome than the Github. Meaning
>>>>>> working with external pull requests, code review features etc. I wish
>>>>>> Olingo repo was on GitHub, instead of using the mirror.
>>>>>> - second, most important is these are not part of ASF (yet), Olingo by
>>>>>> including these in their repository comes with certain amount of
>>>>>> responsibilities from committers, about their completeness, correctness,
>>>>>> documents and management. Unless these are reasonably proved by the
>>>>>> external community effort, Olingo committers are on hook to maintain
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> as if they were part of Olingo repo. So, my suggestion is wait until that
>>>>>> time, then we can take vote to include with Olingo repo. If you are
>>>>>> thinking outside of Olingo, then that need to be approached as new Apache
>>>>>> project, that probably is completely separate effort.
>>>>>> Ramesh..
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> On 21/09/2016 16:32, Ramesh Reddy wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes, I have added the github organization and starter repo for this
>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>> time ago here https://github.com/olingo-extensions
>>>>>>>> let me know who is leading the effort with your Github userid, I will
>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>> the commit rights to the repo.
>>>>>>> Any specific reason to not use an ASF repository (mirrored and
>>>>>>> integrated with GitHub as others, of course)?
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> On 21/09/2016 16:03, Amend, Christian wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>> With Olingo Issue 1010
>>>>>>>>>> (https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OLINGO-1010)
>>>>>>>>>> we got a big contribution for the V4 Olingo code line. I personally
>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>> this is great and we should integrate this into the Olingo project.
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> main question I have how this could be done best.
>>>>>>>>>>  From the V2 JPA extension we learned that the inability to make JPA
>>>>>>>>>> releases independent from the core library hurts the development
>>>>>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>>>>> Also a lot of feedback was centered around extending the JPA
>>>>>>>>>> processor
>>>>>>>>>> and requiring callbacks to adjust the SQL statements before they are
>>>>>>>>>> send
>>>>>>>>>> to the database. I am not really familiar with JPA and I did not
>>>>>>>>>> dive
>>>>>>>>>> into the details of the contribution to see if these points are
>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>> met. Any feedback here is welcome.
>>>>>>>>>> For first steps I would suggest:
>>>>>>>>>> - Delete the POC JPA Jira Items as they are not needed anymore
>>>>>>>>>> - Integrate the code into our repository in a branch so
>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>> can look at the code
>>>>>>>>>> - Decide on a repository
>>>>>>>>>> - Decide on a release strategy
>>>>>>>>>> - Perform an alpha release and collect feedback
>>>>>>>>>> WDYT? Do you have any ideas about how to set this up so we can make
>>>>>>>>>> independent releases? Should we ask for a separate git repository?
>>>>>>>>> IMO, a separate GIT repository with independent release process seems
>>>>>>>>> the simpler way to handle what you report above.
>>>>>>>>> Just my 2c.
>>>>>>>>> Regards.
>>> --
>>> Francesco Chicchiriccò
>>> Tirasa - Open Source Excellence
>>> http://www.tirasa.net/
>>> Member at The Apache Software Foundation
>>> Syncope, Cocoon, Olingo, CXF, OpenJPA, PonyMail
>>> http://home.apache.org/~ilgrosso/
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