Right. I knew It's a good way to share all discussions on the mailing, I didn't do so. I will try to share my thoughts as much as possible.
Thank you for the advice. Regards, Minseok On Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Andrew Purtell <apurt...@apache.org> wrote: > The best thing you can do to start is begin having discussions out on your > dev@ list instead of face to face discussion. It will require discipline > and add time to decision making, but it has the effect of inviting > potential community members into your team. > > After you have done that for a few weeks, let me circle back and suggest > some ways to use social media to attract potential users and contributors > outside of Kakao. > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jaesang Kim <honeysl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > As Hyunsung and DOYUNG mentioned, we need to work in the Apache way. We > > have to discuss and make a decision in the mailing list. > > > > But, we don't need to make the Kakao repo. as read-only. Because the > Kakao > > repo is not related to Apache. In this mailing, we need to deal with > > related issues on Apache S2Graph. > > > > And I think that making an issue on Jira and replying to it also > acceptable > > way of Apache. Because the jira bot send the message to our mailing list. > > If we can discuss and make a decision in *the open place* like the > mailing > > or Jira, I think that it is also Apache way. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > 2016년 3월 18일 (금) 오후 12:24, DO YUNG YOON <sho...@gmail.com>님이 작성: > > > > > Hi. > > > > > > I have to admit that comitters at Kakao had face-to-face discussion and > > > these discussions have not been transparent to community. > > > > > > I think I am the one who screw up here, since I have created issues and > > ask > > > others to review my issues f2f. Let me explain my mistakes here. > > > > > > There has been lots of code changes on kakao repo since initial code > > import > > > and I wanted apache repo to catch up this changes. > > > Honestly I felt bad on initial code base since it is not organized at > all > > > and there has been critical bug, so I was in a hurry to conceal my bad > > > code. > > > In this catch up period, most of committers at Kakao already know what > > each > > > issues are about so there is no explanations and I think this was worst > > > part. > > > > > > We should first set up milestones first, then list up not only issues > > that > > > has been changed at Kakao repo but also what we will work on. Then we > had > > > to discuss releases and what changes will be included in our release. > > > Missing this process make others to see where we are heading to and > hard > > to > > > understand what is going on. > > > > > > Finally, each issues could be differently resolved, not the way they > have > > > resolved in Kakao repo. For each issue, I had to give explanation on > how > > > theses issues has been resolved first at Kakao and should discuss > futhur > > if > > > there would be better idea. Missing this also make others express their > > > idea hard and I totally agree just doing code review based on private > > > discussion at company is not the right way. > > > > > > Basically, Apache git is not just kakao repo's backport, it should be > > > master place, so here is what I am suggesting. > > > > > > Make kakao repo as read-only like Sergio suggested at the first, no > more > > > discussion on other place. if Kakao want to use s2graph, then they fork > > > apache s2graph and all necessary changes for their service should go > into > > > forked repo(from apache). > > > > > > Completely indepent with Kakao, all committers at kakao should brought > up > > > all discussion and ideas into apache mailing list first. For each > issue, > > > maybe good idea at Kakao can be brought up and merged into apache or > > better > > > idea through discussion at mailing list can be finally merged, but > > > important thing is we have to make our decision at mailing list, not > > > face-to-face meeting. > > > > > > committers at Kakao, please give any opinion how we will work. > > > > > > Sergio, Luke. Thanks for point out this issue and please keep pointing > > out > > > if we are out of ASF way. > > > > > > Not sure if I can brought up all privately decided discussion, but I > will > > > try my best. I think we should start with most important discussions > such > > > as milestones, and release. > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 11:43 AM Hyunsung Jo <hyunsung...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I understand where the concerns are coming from and frankly have to > > admit > > > > that Kakao members of the community are guilty as charged : ( > > > > I can think of a few reasons of why the project is not up to par > > > regarding > > > > working in the Apache Way: > > > > - committers having little development experience in ASF projects > > > > - committers sharing the same office > > > > - language barrier is an actual thing, too! > > > > However, none the above reasons can be an excuse if S2Graph wants to > > > become > > > > a successful Apache project. > > > > I can only speak for myself, but I'm confident that the committers > are > > > keen > > > > believers in the Apache Way and solving this problem is a matter of > > more > > > > care and practice. > > > > Thank you for your kind advise, Sergio and Luke. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jo > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 8:14 AM Luke Han <luke...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Same feeling I have too, there's few discussions for others to > > > > participant > > > > > and exchange ideas. > > > > > > > > > > Our experience from Apache Kylin, the core dev team was in same > > office, > > > > is > > > > > to bring such stuff to mailing list as much as possible. f2f > discuss > > > is a > > > > > great way but at least should raise some thread to let community > know > > > the > > > > > next step, the plan and architect/tech changes, so that everybody > > could > > > > > join. Then you could see the community is more active today with > many > > > new > > > > > contributors/committers and users. > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if I could help more. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards! > > > > > --------------------- > > > > > > > > > > Luke Han > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > wik...@apache.org> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I've been thinking for a while about this issue... because my > > current > > > > > > feeling in that the community has not really landed in ASF. Yes, > > you > > > > are > > > > > > creating issues, pull requests, commiting code, etc. But there is > > no > > > > much > > > > > > discussion in the mailing list. For instance, checking the mail > > > > archives > > > > > of > > > > > > dev@s2graph.a.o > > > > > > http://markmail.org/search/?q=list%3Aorg.apache.s2graph.dev it's > > > > > > clear something is happening behind the scenes. I can't find any > > > other > > > > > > reason how I can be the second most active person (excluding jira > > and > > > > > > github bots) in this mailing list. > > > > > > > > > > > > So that leads me to think that you still meet face-to-face on > > regular > > > > > > basis, you privately agree on the next steps and then you behave > as > > > you > > > > > did > > > > > > before as a company, but just on public coding infrastructure. > And > > > > that's > > > > > > not supposed to happen in the Apache Way, where decisions are > taken > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > community. Actually there is a common say in Apache: "If it > didn't > > > > happen > > > > > > on a mailing list, it didn't happen". > > > > > > > > > > > > I may be wrong, and I hope to be wrong, but that's my current > > > feeling. > > > > > So, > > > > > > my advice as mentor, and actually it's one of the points I > stressed > > > > when > > > > > > the project entered incubation, is that you have to focus to grow > > > your > > > > > > community outside Kakao. For instance, I miss the discussion > about > > > the > > > > > > first release. Such kind of thing, you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sergio Fernández > > > > > > Partner Technology Manager > > > > > > Redlink GmbH > > > > > > m: +43 6602747925 > > > > > > e: sergio.fernan...@redlink.co > > > > > > w: http://redlink.co > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Jaesang > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > > - Andy > > Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by hitting back. - Piet Hein > (via Tom White) >
