On Jun 21, 2006, at 8:31 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
We like to chatter about what's best for Struts, or what Struts is, but I think the key question is what's Shale, and what's best for Shale? I remain concerned that, after two years on a greenfield, there has not been a GA release of Shale. I have to wonder if keeping Shale here is stunting the community's growth. We've heard from Craig, but in order to make any kind of decision, I'd have to know how the other people working on Shale feel.
Unfortunately, I don't have time to think through my response well enough right now, so if this seems disjointed, please forgive me.
I'm not working directly on Shale (yet) but I am holding up a GA release :-) As I understand it one of the big reasons Shale is not to GA yet is because it can't go to GA until Tiles does. While it's waiting for Tiles, new innovations are happening that may be further holding up the release, but I've read on this list that Shale can't go GA until Tiles goes GA. I'm not sure if that's a dependency that can or should be removed.
I see the advantages Shale brings to the table when working with JSF and I want it to succeed. The problem with keeping it here is that it may be perceived as a tagalong library to Struts no matter how we try to present it. The problem with moving it is that we have to set up all the infrastructure to support it. Not just the bureaucracy of its own TLP and PMC, but the spreading thinner of the people involved. For example, how many Apache projects can somebody like Wendy support before she implodes :-) Is it easier for her to add value to Shale's capabilities here than if Shale moved to a TLP? To clarify, if we build in improvements to Struts project management then we have to copy those improvements to Shale if it lives on its own whereas now we can just inherit them. The advantage of an umbrella project is that you don't have to copy things :-) And committers can migrate around to whatever their current needs are without having to switch PMC's or figure out which mailing list to post to.
I'm conflicted as to the best approach. Living on its own will give Shale room to grow. Living here makes it easier for those of us who are already here to participate. I'll be involved in both as much as possible either way.
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