On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 07:23:43PM +0100, Julian Foad wrote: > Looks like we might want to move our channels, bots, and so on?
> Libera.chat [2] has been posited as a direct replacement. > However, the sane replacement these days is Matrix [1]. I understand Matrix has more modern technology, and I understand your motivation in pushing for it. I took this opportunity to take a look. First thing I checked was which clients are available for me to install on OpenBSD systems. There's a plugin for pidgin and a client called gomuks. I suppose gomuks could work. I am currently using irssi. I would now have to run both irssi (for other IRC channels) and gomuks, or switch to gomuks completely and rely on bridges for IRC access. There's also the server component dendrite I could install. I don't think I would want to start out in Matrix by running my own server, though. I've read somewhere that Matrix servers require a lot of resources to run, but I don't know if that is still the case. Many more clients are listed on the matrix website but I could not easily install those on OpenBSD without porting them first. I could install Element on my phone, though I don't think I would ever really follow svn/svn-dev chatter on the phone. Compared to the cost of installing and learning to use a new client, the cost of switching to Libera was almost zero. I could start using this new drop-in replacement service without even restarting my IRC client, and channel setup and nick registration were done in less than 30 minutes. Given that there is still a non-trivial amount of regulars hanging out in the #svn channel, the cost of switching everyone of them over is not going to be negligible, no matter what. Technology aside, some other thoughts: Keeping a matrix bridge to the current freenode channels alive means we're not actually leaving this network. To support the former freenode staff it makes more sense to switch IRC server *and* possibly look into a migration to Matrix. I don't think these are conflicting goals. The freenode problem apparently happened because of for-profit investment. I don't know the details, but as far as I understand a company was registered and then sold to someone who is now trying to use their monetary influence in ways that existing community members disagree with. The new Libera network claims to be operated by an unnamed non-profit association in Sweden. According to whois, the libera.chat domain is held by someone in Reykjavik, Iceland. I couldn't find details, but I don't see a reason to doubt that former freenode staff no what they are doing. It seems like they intentionally set up a new structure to prevent their current problem from re-occurring. Whereas Matrix development is primarily backed by a for-profit, vector-im. By design, and in the long term(!), this structure is vulnerable to the same type of problem that just happened to freenode. I understand that ad-hoc federation can help mitigate this risk, but in the end we will always have to rely on a healthy community to operate the service for us, whether the service uses a "modern web" ad-hoc federation style, or the traditional federation style of IRC which requires close coordination and bonds of trust between admins. Cheers, Stefan
