Hi André,
André Wyrwa wrote:
http://marketing.openoffice.org/tryouts/Why.OpenOffice.org/en/download.htm ?
We could indeed do some OS recommendation, but language selection is
sadly not possible. The get variables that your script generates, need
to go somewhere... and in the case of OpenOffice.org that is
http://openoffice.bouncer.osuosl.org/ . Great you might think, version,
operating system and language are all supported variables... sad thing
though is that not every combination retrieves a link... so de (German)
will work for 2.1.0 (but it probably didn't work for 2.1.0 in start),
but not for nl (Dutch), or es (Spanish), while both versions are
actually available. And secondly, not all languages are part of this
dropdown.
this argument seems to mix the current situation into a future
possibility. I see two possibilities to circumvent the issues you are
arising:
1. Make bouncer universal and just maintain the offerings in the
JavaScript. This is the non-ideal solution, but it would mean that the
JavaScript only offers options that are indeed available.
What do you mean with making the bouncer 'universal'?
2. The better way: I'm assuming that any collabnet page is create via
php and that any content part of a page can hence use php, right? So why
Nope. No PHP... No serverside scripting... that is what is creating a
end-user website so sluggish. Collabnet is a collaboration system, which
is running on openoffice.org . Within this system we are creating a
website that doesn't need the collaboration features Collabnet offers,
and would benefit from more advanced features that the Collab system is
seriously lacking (such as a good server side scripting mechanism... The
only place where some other systems are running is on the services
subdomain if I am not mistaken... So there go much of your ideas... :(
Currently we are using javascript as well add an extra line to 'This is
the (US) English version of OpenOffice.org, it is available in other
languages too.', we write 'You might be interested in ' ... followed by
the english name for the language detected by the browser.
The whole system as it is now seems far too complicated to me. It is
intransparent for the user and it seems chaotic maintanence as well.
It is, except when you want the US English download (well I think that
one is relatively straightforward now).
This does not include 'preferred language' btw, and with firefox I have
doubts whether it sends more than OS language (on multiple levels a
browser might send information about language-settings, and firefox only
sends a limited set of this).
No it doesn't send more than OS language. Furthermore, in IE on Windows
the wrong part of the language settings is exported. However, it seems a
very valid assumption to me that the OS language is a users preferred
language. And if not so, the user should be able to realize that the
offered language is not what he wants and click the "other download
options" link. This is really nothing new but rather exactly what the
mozilla download button does.
I know, but it you shouldn't have typed 'perfectly' ;)
I have promoted this type of button as well... but it resulted in a <ul>
inside of the button referring to several ways of obtaining OOo which is
imho definitely not the way to go. I would like it a lot to have such
button. And...
??? I don't understand.
Except if that approach tried to cover too much in one button.
That was the point... P2P, CDRoms and download links were presented in
the same 'button' area.
I really
totally can't see the difference between Mozilla Firefox and
OpenOffice.org in that matter. Both offer one single product for a
variety of Operating Systems in various languages. The only difference
is that JRE bundling for OOo but as i believe i've shown, that's rather
just expanding the same solution than needing to find a new one.
I think one difference to consider is size. OpenOffice.org is >10 times
bigger in download size than Firefox, and the JRE makes that >11.5
times. This is why CDroms and other methods (like p2p etc.) are somewhat
more important. You won't order a CD-Rom for 9MB, even if you're on
dial-up that's kind of do-able... (I think, I'm getting used to
broadband internet). Furthermore Firefox is a browser, and that's it.
Everybody knows what a browser does, and browsers are considered to be
free, so nothing special. OpenOffice.org is an office suite. But for
free? Where is the catch?
I would prefer a mozilla like download button as well... but we behind
fast internet connections are not the only people, and installing
openoffice.org is not that straightforward as installing a firefox.
Therefore links to documentation is more important as well.
Ok, so we have independant language projects who maintain their
translated downloads and we don't know when they become available. So
what? It's no problem to check for their availability via php, given
that they are place in some kind of standard path scheme.
There is no PHP, nor a PHP alternative at openoffice.org ... :( Else
things would have been better already...
If you have other ideas please post them... but I am afraid we already
doing much of what is possible. Maybe setting up another website besides
openoffice.org is a better idea... but I don't have the resources for that.
My apologies for being a bit short... but I accepted the environment,
and yes it is really slowing progression in making the website more
usable... I have had multiple ideas of improving and most problems come
down to a few key points:
a) No Serverside scripting
b) No central control over the website's architecture (everybody is just
doing something)
c) Native languages all have their own ways of e.g. offering their downloads
d) Lack of styling guidelines for the website
I have little time... and these things cost a lot of time to work on...
therefore I am mainly concerned with tackling at least the small issues
people raise every now and then. Problem is also that a lot of people
have opinions about how these things should be done which really slows
down decision making... (which also explains my tendency to create a
completely new website from scratch if you want to do things really well).
Another solution, still ignoring point a, would be to create a
'cleaning'-team, that seriously goes through all, and then really all of
the openoffice.org website. This small team would be able to set a
style, and directions, to which site owners should adhere too.
Yes, a bit controversial since it is a bit anti-bazaar way of working...
but I think that is also how Mozilla got it done.
g.,
Maarten
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