On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:33, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Thanks for the detailed report. > > > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> Hi devs, > >> > >> Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about > >> XWiki) to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me > next > >> to him so I could observe and ask him what was going through his head. > >> > >> I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each > >> point and see what we want to do to improve the situation. > >> > >> The Setup > >> ======== > >> > >> * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in. > >> > > > > It's because you had the credentials in the browser's cache. Otherwise we > > ask for them. > > This was part of my setup for him. Not sure why you said “because”. There > was no question nor problem here :) > > > * I had made the Admin user a simple user. > >> > > > > XE-1580: Change the user type for the Admin user to 'simple' > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1580 > > Again this was part of the setup I made so there was no problem about this. > > However we do have a problem of having the first user be an admin user > (see the point about this in my report below), i.e. your first introduction > to XWiki is as an admin user, meaning you get to see more options (admin > page menu entry, global admin settings) which in this session caused > several problems fpr him. > > > * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my > >> computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have > read > >> it till the end of not. > >> * I asked him 2 things only: > >> ** Create some new pages > >> ** Modify the home page > >> > >> The Feedback > >> =========== > >> > >> * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s > >> French). He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a > way > >> to change the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that > language > >> was a global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other > feedback: > >> The French translation for the language settings is really not > >> user-friendly and needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”, > which > >> is too technical. > >> > > > > XWIKI-6402: Separate Interface language and page language settings. > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 > > This one seems quite important for newcomers. We should fix XWIKI-6042 > ofc. Another idea would be that, on the first run (ie when no admin user is > set up yet) we ask about the language(s) of the wiki in the DW. > > XWIKI-10115: Add the option to choose the language of a new wiki created with the Distribution Wizard http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10115 XWIKI-11431: Use the language set for the Main Wiki for newly created subwikis http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11431 > Basically right now there needs to be an admin who set up the languages > for the wiki users, before simple users start using the wiki. > > > * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in > >> French instead of “Accueil”. > >> > >> * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page > >> Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of > >> "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the > >> home page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main” > which > >> 1/ was in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him. > >> > > > > We have several inconsistencies for the naming (Indexes, etc.). I agree > > they are confusing. > > > > > >> > >> * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for > that > >> in the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to > tell > >> him to stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so > that > >> he couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with > this > >> probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are > >> admins). Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to > create a > >> new page. > >> > >> * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and > some > >> pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and > saw > >> that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create > that > >> “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was > >> about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the > “Children > >> Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly > labelled as > >> “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid > >> grammatically, missing an “s” for plural) but he understood it was > related > >> to children page he suggested “Sous-pages” as a better translation). So > he > >> clicked on it and he saw a form displayed (actually it was the filter of > >> the LT UI). And he started typing “Domain” in the text input but nothing > >> happened and he was puzzled. > >> > >> —> When you look at the children LT for a page not having children, > you’ll > >> see that we should improve the UI. It doesn’t even say that’s it’s empty > >> and that there are no children pages… > >> > >> * At this point he was a bit stuck and couldn’t understand how to > create a > >> folder. I had to tell him that in XWiki you could created hierarchical > >> pages and that there’s no notion of folders (I didn’t want to explain > the > >> concept of Spaces especially since he hide this in the UI). He mentioned > >> that after 20 years of Microsoft practice, everyone understands the > concept > >> of folders and files and that it’s hard to understand that we only have > >> hierarchical pages. He suggest that we may want to have 2 “+” buttons > next > >> to each other (like “+” and “++” or some other visual with a tooltip of > >> “Créer page” and “Créer sous-page"). One to create sibling pages and > >> another one to create children pages). In his head, the default when you > >> create a page is to create a sibling page, not a sub-page. > > > > > >> * After this he was able to create his pages (note that he used > >> immediately the templates we provided for his test and selected the > >> Encyclopedia template). > >> > >> * He noted that the icon for Rename/Move/Delete was weird and he didn’t > >> understand the relationship between the actions and the icon which is > the > >> one for settings (the cog). He suggested to use something different > like a > >> rubber (which incidentally I see that it’s missing from > >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWiki+Icon+Set and we > >> need to add it). FYI he was no longer Admin at this point so the “Page > >> Administration” entry wasn’t visible. > >> > > > > Not sure about the rubber icon. > > > > > >> > >> * When he edited his first page, he quickly told me that that the “Save” > >> buttons are way too hidden (they’re usually not even visible when you > edit > >> if you don’t scroll down). He was expecting them to see them at the top, > >> close to the page menus. He suggested that we should have a horizontal > bar > >> that stays always visible when you scroll down and that contains the > save > >> buttons. > >> > > > > There are several problems with the bottom horizontal bar for > > responsiveness and display of panels in mobile mode. > > > > > >> > >> * At this point he created a hierarchy of pages and then wanted to move > >> some page around to test this feature. However he could find the menu > entry > >> to do so. He could easily find the move, copy and delete entries but > that’s > >> not what he was looking for. The reason is that the French translation > is > >> “Renommer”. On English I see that we’ve now renamed it to > >> "core.menu.rename=Move / Rename”. But the French translation is still > >> “Renommer”. When I suggested to have “Renommer / Déplacer” to him he > said > >> that he’d simply call it “Déplacer” since for renaming a page he doesn’t > >> need to go to that screen and he can simply edit the page and change the > >> title. He said it’s fine to leave the ability to change the title on the > >> Move UI but that it was just a nice bonus and not the main goal of this > >> screen in his opinion. > >> > >> * On the Rename UI screen, he started by clicking in the source > >> breadcrumb, and he was surprised that the browser navigated away. Later > on > >> he realized that the was a target section. At this point he commented > that > >> he expected to see the target first since that’s what he wanted to > change. > >> He also suggested that if would be simpler to use if the target > breadcrumb > >> was replaced by a Tree to choose the new location. > >> > >> * When he tried to modify the home page he did it very easily and was > able > >> to put his own content. When I told him that some user find it > difficult to > >> understand that they could modify the home page he said that it’s not > the > >> first thing he’d have done. > >> > >> * On the positive side, the navigation panel was really nice for him. He > >> kept using it all the time to navigate. Thus navigation wasn’t an issue > for > >> him. > >> > >> That’s it. Hope we can use this to improve basic user experience. The > >> biggest item by far is to make users understand that there’s no folder > and > >> that there’s only hierarchical pages. I think I like his idea of the 2 > add > >> buttons (create sibling page and create children page), or something > >> similar (I guess the Create UI itself could have a different UI to ask > the > >> user clearly if he/she wants to create a sibling or a children page). > >> > > > > So I don't like this idea about the folders. > > What idea? I don’t remember having mentioned any idea about having > folders. Caty it’s not an idea: it’s the way people approach hierarchy > nowadays because they’re used to filesystems. > > > For me is like going backwards > > to the "Space/Page" separation we had before the Nested Pages. > > I didn’t propose anything regarding reinstating spaces or folders so not > sure what you’re reacting against, could you be more explicit? > > That said, the old way was much simpler to understand for users and was > causing less friction. They could create spaces and pages. > > We lost that simplicity and I’m wondering if dropping spaces wasn’t a bad > idea (especially since we still have this at the model level). > > In any case we need to discuss what are our options to make user > understands that we have only hierarchical pages and no concept of > “folders”. And having some text explanation is definitely not going to work > on this (he didn’t even start reading the text of the home page). Thus for > me this has to be explained by the UI somehow. > IMO the tree already helps a lot in helping creating hierarchical structures. Maybe an improvement would be to allow to create pages inside the Tree structure. Thanks, Caty > > > Also the > > sibling/children separation is strange/'technical’. > > The words are technical but the concepts are not because users are used to > folders. When you’re inside a folder you can create several files at the > same level (that’s siblings) and apparently that’s what he was expecting > when he clicked the “+” button (to create pages at the same level in the > current “folder”). > > Thanks > -Vincent > > > Thanks, > > Caty > > > > > >> > >> Thanks > >> -Vincent > > _______________________________________________ > devs mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs > _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
