On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> wrote:

>
> > On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:33, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <vali...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the detailed report.
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi devs,
> >>
> >> Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about
> >> XWiki) to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me
> next
> >> to him so I could observe and ask him what was going through his head.
> >>
> >> I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each
> >> point and see what we want to do to improve the situation.
> >>
> >> The Setup
> >> ========
> >>
> >> * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in.
> >>
> >
> > It's because you had the credentials in the browser's cache. Otherwise we
> > ask for them.
>
> This was part of my setup for him. Not sure why you said “because”. There
> was no question nor problem here :)
>
> > * I had made the Admin user a simple user.
> >>
> >
> > XE-1580: Change the user type for the Admin user to 'simple'
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1580
>
> Again this was part of the setup I made so there was no problem about this.
>
> However we do have a problem of having the first user be an admin user
> (see the point about this in my report below), i.e. your first introduction
> to XWiki is as an admin user, meaning you get to see more options (admin
> page menu entry, global admin settings) which in this session caused
> several problems fpr him.
>
> > * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my
> >> computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have
> read
> >> it till the end of not.
> >> * I asked him 2 things only:
> >> ** Create some new pages
> >> ** Modify the home page
> >>
> >> The Feedback
> >> ===========
> >>
> >> * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s
> >> French). He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a
> way
> >> to change the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that
> language
> >> was a global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other
> feedback:
> >> The French translation for the language settings is really not
> >> user-friendly and needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”,
> which
> >> is too technical.
> >>
> >
> > XWIKI-6402: Separate Interface language and page language settings.
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402
>
> This one seems quite important for newcomers. We should fix XWIKI-6042
> ofc. Another idea would be that, on the first run (ie when no admin user is
> set up yet) we ask about the language(s) of the wiki in the DW.
>
>
XWIKI-10115: Add the option to choose the language of a new wiki created
with the Distribution Wizard http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10115
XWIKI-11431: Use the language set for the Main Wiki for newly created
subwikis http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11431


> Basically right now there needs to be an admin who set up the languages
> for the wiki users, before simple users start using the wiki.
>
> > * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in
> >> French instead of “Accueil”.
> >>
> >> * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page
> >> Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of
> >> "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the
> >> home page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main”
> which
> >> 1/ was in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him.
> >>
> >
> > We have several inconsistencies for the naming (Indexes, etc.). I agree
> > they are confusing.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for
> that
> >> in the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to
> tell
> >> him to stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so
> that
> >> he couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with
> this
> >> probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are
> >> admins). Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to
> create a
> >> new page.
> >>
> >> * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and
> some
> >> pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and
> saw
> >> that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create
> that
> >> “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was
> >> about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the
> “Children
> >> Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly
> labelled as
> >> “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid
> >> grammatically, missing an “s” for plural) but he understood it was
> related
> >> to children page he suggested “Sous-pages” as a better translation). So
> he
> >> clicked on it and he saw a form displayed (actually it was the filter of
> >> the LT UI). And he started typing “Domain” in the text input but nothing
> >> happened and he was puzzled.
> >>
> >> —> When you look at the children LT for a page not having children,
> you’ll
> >> see that we should improve the UI. It doesn’t even say that’s it’s empty
> >> and that there are no children pages…
> >>
> >> * At this point he was a bit stuck and couldn’t understand how to
> create a
> >> folder. I had to tell him that in XWiki you could created hierarchical
> >> pages and that there’s no notion of folders (I didn’t want to explain
> the
> >> concept of Spaces especially since he hide this in the UI). He mentioned
> >> that after 20 years of Microsoft practice, everyone understands the
> concept
> >> of folders and files and that it’s hard to understand that we only have
> >> hierarchical pages. He suggest that we may want to have 2 “+” buttons
> next
> >> to each other (like “+” and “++” or some other visual with a tooltip of
> >> “Créer page” and “Créer sous-page"). One to create sibling pages and
> >> another one to create children pages). In his head, the default when you
> >> create a page is to create a sibling page, not a sub-page.
> >
> >
> >> * After this he was able to create his pages (note that he used
> >> immediately the templates we provided for his test and selected the
> >> Encyclopedia template).
> >>
> >> * He noted that the icon for Rename/Move/Delete was weird and he didn’t
> >> understand the relationship between the actions and the icon which is
> the
> >> one for settings (the cog). He suggested to use something different
> like a
> >> rubber (which incidentally I see that it’s missing from
> >> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWiki+Icon+Set and we
> >> need to add it). FYI he was no longer Admin at this point so the “Page
> >> Administration” entry wasn’t visible.
> >>
> >
> > Not sure about the rubber icon.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> * When he edited his first page, he quickly told me that that the “Save”
> >> buttons are way too hidden (they’re usually not even visible when you
> edit
> >> if you don’t scroll down). He was expecting them to see them at the top,
> >> close to the page menus. He suggested that we should have a horizontal
> bar
> >> that stays always visible when you scroll down and that contains the
> save
> >> buttons.
> >>
> >
> > There are several problems with the bottom horizontal bar for
> > responsiveness and display of panels in mobile mode.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> * At this point he created a hierarchy of pages and then wanted to move
> >> some page around to test this feature. However he could find the menu
> entry
> >> to do so. He could easily find the move, copy and delete entries but
> that’s
> >> not what he was looking for. The reason is that the French translation
> is
> >> “Renommer”. On English I see that we’ve now renamed it to
> >> "core.menu.rename=Move / Rename”. But the French translation is still
> >> “Renommer”. When I suggested to have “Renommer / Déplacer” to him he
> said
> >> that he’d simply call it “Déplacer” since for renaming a page he doesn’t
> >> need to go to that screen and he can simply edit the page and change the
> >> title. He said it’s fine to leave the ability to change the title on the
> >> Move UI but that it was just a nice bonus and not the main goal of this
> >> screen in his opinion.
> >>
> >> * On the Rename UI screen, he started by clicking in the source
> >> breadcrumb, and he was surprised that the browser navigated away. Later
> on
> >> he realized that the was a target section. At this point he commented
> that
> >> he expected to see the target first since that’s what he wanted to
> change.
> >> He also suggested that if would be simpler to use if the target
> breadcrumb
> >> was replaced by a Tree to choose the new location.
> >>
> >> * When he tried to modify the home page he did it very easily and was
> able
> >> to put his own content. When I told him that some user find it
> difficult to
> >> understand that they could modify the home page he said that it’s not
> the
> >> first thing he’d have done.
> >>
> >> * On the positive side, the navigation panel was really nice for him. He
> >> kept using it all the time to navigate. Thus navigation wasn’t an issue
> for
> >> him.
> >>
> >> That’s it. Hope we can use this to improve basic user experience. The
> >> biggest item by far is to make users understand that there’s no folder
> and
> >> that there’s only hierarchical pages. I think I like his idea of the 2
> add
> >> buttons (create sibling page and create children page), or something
> >> similar (I guess the Create UI itself could have a different UI to ask
> the
> >> user clearly if he/she wants to create a sibling or a children page).
> >>
> >
> > So I don't like this idea about the folders.
>
> What idea? I don’t remember having mentioned any idea about having
> folders. Caty it’s not an idea: it’s the way people approach hierarchy
> nowadays because they’re used to filesystems.
>
> > For me is like going backwards
> > to the "Space/Page" separation we had before the Nested Pages.
>
> I didn’t propose anything regarding reinstating spaces or folders so not
> sure what you’re reacting against, could you be more explicit?
>
> That said, the old way was much simpler to understand for users and was
> causing less friction. They could create spaces and pages.
>
> We lost that simplicity and I’m wondering if dropping spaces wasn’t a bad
> idea (especially since we still have this at the model level).
>
> In any case we need to discuss what are our options to make user
> understands that we have only hierarchical pages and no concept of
> “folders”. And having some text explanation is definitely not going to work
> on this (he didn’t even start reading the text of the home page). Thus for
> me this has to be explained by the UI somehow.
>

IMO the tree already helps a lot in helping creating hierarchical
structures. Maybe an improvement would be to allow to create pages inside
the Tree structure.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> > Also the
> > sibling/children separation is strange/'technical’.
>
> The words are technical but the concepts are not because users are used to
> folders. When you’re inside a folder you can create several files at the
> same level (that’s siblings) and apparently that’s what he was expecting
> when he clicked the “+” button (to create pages at the same level in the
> current “folder”).
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
>
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