> On 17 Oct 2016, at 14:32, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <vali...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 2:50 PM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> wrote: > >> >>> On 17 Oct 2016, at 12:33, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <vali...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Thanks for the detailed report. >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 17, 2016 at 11:30 AM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net> >> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi devs, >>>> >>>> Over the weekend I asked my brother in law (who doesn’t anything about >>>> XWiki) to test it and give me some feedback. He did this test with me >> next >>>> to him so I could observe and ask him what was going through his head. >>>> >>>> I’m sending below a summary of the session. We now need to address each >>>> point and see what we want to do to improve the situation. >>>> >>>> The Setup >>>> ======== >>>> >>>> * HSQLDB/Jetty already setup with an Admin user already logged in. >>>> >>> >>> It's because you had the credentials in the browser's cache. Otherwise we >>> ask for them. >> >> This was part of my setup for him. Not sure why you said “because”. There >> was no question nor problem here :) >> >>> * I had made the Admin user a simple user. >>>> >>> >>> XE-1580: Change the user type for the Admin user to 'simple' >>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XE-1580 >> >> Again this was part of the setup I made so there was no problem about this. >> >> However we do have a problem of having the first user be an admin user >> (see the point about this in my report below), i.e. your first introduction >> to XWiki is as an admin user, meaning you get to see more options (admin >> page menu entry, global admin settings) which in this session caused >> several problems fpr him. >> >>> * I later realized that I had forgotten to remove my local cookie on my >>>> computer and he didn’t have the Tour. Thus I don’t know if he’d have >> read >>>> it till the end of not. >>>> * I asked him 2 things only: >>>> ** Create some new pages >>>> ** Modify the home page >>>> >>>> The Feedback >>>> =========== >>>> >>>> * First thing he wanted to do was to switch the UI to French (he’s >>>> French). He looked for his user profile, found it, and couldn’t find a >> way >>>> to change the language. Fail. I had to tell give him the hint that >> language >>>> was a global wiki-level setting and I had to do it for him. Other >> feedback: >>>> The French translation for the language settings is really not >>>> user-friendly and needs to be changed, it’s currently “Localisation”, >> which >>>> is too technical. >>>> >>> >>> XWIKI-6402: Separate Interface language and page language settings. >>> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 >> >> This one seems quite important for newcomers. We should fix XWIKI-6042 >> ofc. Another idea would be that, on the first run (ie when no admin user is >> set up yet) we ask about the language(s) of the wiki in the DW. >> >> > XWIKI-10115: Add the option to choose the language of a new wiki created > with the Distribution Wizard http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10115 > XWIKI-11431: Use the language set for the Main Wiki for newly created > subwikis http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-11431 > > >> Basically right now there needs to be an admin who set up the languages >> for the wiki users, before simple users start using the wiki. >> >>> * Then he said he spotted a bug. The home page had a title of “Home” in >>>> French instead of “Accueil”. >>>> >>>> * He looked around in the UI and at some point he clicked on Page >>>> Administration on the home page. This opened a UI with a title of >>>> "Administration : Main”. He asked: “what is Main?”. Indeed he was on the >>>> home page that was entitled “Home” and suddenly he was shown “Main” >> which >>>> 1/ was in English and 2/ didn’t mean anything to him. >>>> >>> >>> We have several inconsistencies for the naming (Indexes, etc.). I agree >>> they are confusing. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> * Then he went on to create a new page and initially was looking for >> that >>>> in the drawer in the Wiki Administration UI… At some point, I had to >> tell >>>> him to stop and I created a simple user for him (that is not Admin so >> that >>>> he couldn’t do in the wiki administration - I should have started with >> this >>>> probably although we need to fix our issue that first time users are >>>> admins). Once this was done he was able to quickly find the “+” to >> create a >>>> new page. >>>> >>>> * However, he wanted to create a structure with a “Domain” folder and >> some >>>> pages inside that folder. He saw the Tree in the Navigation Panel and >> saw >>>> that it was hierarchical and thus he wanted to do the same and create >> that >>>> “Domain” folder first. So he cancelled the Create Page UI since this was >>>> about creating a page and he wanted a folder. He then found the >> “Children >>>> Pages” entry in the “More” menu. Note that in French it’s badly >> labelled as >>>> “Enfant de XXX” which was weird to him (FTR it’s also invalid >>>> grammatically, missing an “s” for plural) but he understood it was >> related >>>> to children page he suggested “Sous-pages” as a better translation). So >> he >>>> clicked on it and he saw a form displayed (actually it was the filter of >>>> the LT UI). And he started typing “Domain” in the text input but nothing >>>> happened and he was puzzled. >>>> >>>> —> When you look at the children LT for a page not having children, >> you’ll >>>> see that we should improve the UI. It doesn’t even say that’s it’s empty >>>> and that there are no children pages… >>>> >>>> * At this point he was a bit stuck and couldn’t understand how to >> create a >>>> folder. I had to tell him that in XWiki you could created hierarchical >>>> pages and that there’s no notion of folders (I didn’t want to explain >> the >>>> concept of Spaces especially since he hide this in the UI). He mentioned >>>> that after 20 years of Microsoft practice, everyone understands the >> concept >>>> of folders and files and that it’s hard to understand that we only have >>>> hierarchical pages. He suggest that we may want to have 2 “+” buttons >> next >>>> to each other (like “+” and “++” or some other visual with a tooltip of >>>> “Créer page” and “Créer sous-page"). One to create sibling pages and >>>> another one to create children pages). In his head, the default when you >>>> create a page is to create a sibling page, not a sub-page. >>> >>> >>>> * After this he was able to create his pages (note that he used >>>> immediately the templates we provided for his test and selected the >>>> Encyclopedia template). >>>> >>>> * He noted that the icon for Rename/Move/Delete was weird and he didn’t >>>> understand the relationship between the actions and the icon which is >> the >>>> one for settings (the cog). He suggested to use something different >> like a >>>> rubber (which incidentally I see that it’s missing from >>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/XWiki+Icon+Set and we >>>> need to add it). FYI he was no longer Admin at this point so the “Page >>>> Administration” entry wasn’t visible. >>>> >>> >>> Not sure about the rubber icon. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> * When he edited his first page, he quickly told me that that the “Save” >>>> buttons are way too hidden (they’re usually not even visible when you >> edit >>>> if you don’t scroll down). He was expecting them to see them at the top, >>>> close to the page menus. He suggested that we should have a horizontal >> bar >>>> that stays always visible when you scroll down and that contains the >> save >>>> buttons. >>>> >>> >>> There are several problems with the bottom horizontal bar for >>> responsiveness and display of panels in mobile mode. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> * At this point he created a hierarchy of pages and then wanted to move >>>> some page around to test this feature. However he could find the menu >> entry >>>> to do so. He could easily find the move, copy and delete entries but >> that’s >>>> not what he was looking for. The reason is that the French translation >> is >>>> “Renommer”. On English I see that we’ve now renamed it to >>>> "core.menu.rename=Move / Rename”. But the French translation is still >>>> “Renommer”. When I suggested to have “Renommer / Déplacer” to him he >> said >>>> that he’d simply call it “Déplacer” since for renaming a page he doesn’t >>>> need to go to that screen and he can simply edit the page and change the >>>> title. He said it’s fine to leave the ability to change the title on the >>>> Move UI but that it was just a nice bonus and not the main goal of this >>>> screen in his opinion. >>>> >>>> * On the Rename UI screen, he started by clicking in the source >>>> breadcrumb, and he was surprised that the browser navigated away. Later >> on >>>> he realized that the was a target section. At this point he commented >> that >>>> he expected to see the target first since that’s what he wanted to >> change. >>>> He also suggested that if would be simpler to use if the target >> breadcrumb >>>> was replaced by a Tree to choose the new location. >>>> >>>> * When he tried to modify the home page he did it very easily and was >> able >>>> to put his own content. When I told him that some user find it >> difficult to >>>> understand that they could modify the home page he said that it’s not >> the >>>> first thing he’d have done. >>>> >>>> * On the positive side, the navigation panel was really nice for him. He >>>> kept using it all the time to navigate. Thus navigation wasn’t an issue >> for >>>> him. >>>> >>>> That’s it. Hope we can use this to improve basic user experience. The >>>> biggest item by far is to make users understand that there’s no folder >> and >>>> that there’s only hierarchical pages. I think I like his idea of the 2 >> add >>>> buttons (create sibling page and create children page), or something >>>> similar (I guess the Create UI itself could have a different UI to ask >> the >>>> user clearly if he/she wants to create a sibling or a children page). >>>> >>> >>> So I don't like this idea about the folders. >> >> What idea? I don’t remember having mentioned any idea about having >> folders. Caty it’s not an idea: it’s the way people approach hierarchy >> nowadays because they’re used to filesystems. >> >>> For me is like going backwards >>> to the "Space/Page" separation we had before the Nested Pages. >> >> I didn’t propose anything regarding reinstating spaces or folders so not >> sure what you’re reacting against, could you be more explicit? >> >> That said, the old way was much simpler to understand for users and was >> causing less friction. They could create spaces and pages. >> >> We lost that simplicity and I’m wondering if dropping spaces wasn’t a bad >> idea (especially since we still have this at the model level). >> >> In any case we need to discuss what are our options to make user >> understands that we have only hierarchical pages and no concept of >> “folders”. And having some text explanation is definitely not going to work >> on this (he didn’t even start reading the text of the home page). Thus for >> me this has to be explained by the UI somehow. >> > > IMO the tree already helps a lot in helping creating hierarchical > structures. Maybe an improvement would be to allow to create pages inside > the Tree structure.
That’s http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12762 (it should be done generically by introducing a macro parameter). Then we could use that in the Navigation Panel tree too. That’s a good idea that could have helped in my session over the weekend (if it’s visible enough). It may not be enough but I think it would help. Thanks -Vincent > Thanks, > Caty > > >> >>> Also the >>> sibling/children separation is strange/'technical’. >> >> The words are technical but the concepts are not because users are used to >> folders. When you’re inside a folder you can create several files at the >> same level (that’s siblings) and apparently that’s what he was expecting >> when he clicked the “+” button (to create pages at the same level in the >> current “folder”). >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> Thanks, >>> Caty >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent _______________________________________________ devs mailing list devs@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
