On 02/11/2018 01:54 AM, Pjotr Prins wrote:
Dub is getting some flak here. This is unsurprising because it is really hard to write a good package manager and build system. I use a lot of languages and not one has a satisfactory package manager. Mostly they try to do too much and get in the way or they do too little and people complain (I prefer the second option). And when there are 100+ dependencies, like with Go and Node, it just becomes impossible to say anything about the state of the system (security, anyone?).

Package management is mostly dependency management. This I handle with GNU Guix (and Nix) package managers. They are great at that.

Ugh, system-level package managers. That's the #1 reason I keep hopping around distros, never finding one I like:

They're all completely fucking non-standard. Every fucking distro has it's own damn package manager (and then there's mac and win and the mobiles), and on top of that, most of those system managers are almost completely worthless *when* you need something other then "the latest version" let alone multiple versions (because "newer is always better" is software's #1 sacred cow). Those are *exactly* the reasons why programming langauges have NEEDED to start rolling their own damn package managers, because relying on the goddamn system managers for libs is a complete fucking non-starter.

(Hmm, Can you tell I'm not happy with system package managers? ;) )

The langauge-based package managers just simply need to keep "buildsystem" OUT of the package manager's scope. That's all. THAT is why system-level packages can be built with whatever tool: because the one thing the system package managers actually do get right is NOT rolling their own mandatory buildsystem.

One of the things on my master list of "project's I'll probably never get around to" is a CLI front-end to unify all this fractured apt/pacman/yum crap.

This also leaves people to choose any old build system. Inside GNU Guix the build system is consistent, which is really nice. I'll write a blog some time this year.

What you really want is to be able to discover packages (i.e., a website such as Dub provides), pull them into your tree (which is just a path and can be handled by git submodules, though I don't like those much either),

Agreed.

and when you distribute: add them to Guix or Nix and provide those packages with build system and as binary deployments to others.

And fracture the hell out of your user-base, forcing even Linux alone to be treated as 100 different fucking incompatable operating systems for which each package only supports one or two? Ugh, god no. Spare me. Even dub, for all it's shortcomings at LEAST has absolutely no trouble treating nearly all of Linux as ONE unified target.

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