"The struggle continues", Love it! Thank you very much for your feedback sir. I appreciate it, especially from an educator's POV. I never intended to leave any implication that I believed you were somehow a "luddite" (yes, I had to look it up ;) ), quite the contrary, just the mere fact that we are having this discussion on this mailing list implies the opposite.
I think it's great that your teaching FLOSS and html5/css3 technologies. I work w/ many of these tools everyday. Eclipse, bluefish, local LAMP env, etc... "I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context (alongside other external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums and youtube howtos) as supplement to class material." I believe these tools are invaluable to even classroom participants, let alone students/consultants like myself. The question I still have is, what would be a pragmatic way to apply vocational certifications or credits to Open Source students? Would you agree at all w/ my earlier suggestion? Which is basically subsidizing underprivileged students for vocational certifications. They study themselves, gov assist w/ the cost of certification testing. For example, php is FOSS software, yet Zend.com maintains the core of the language to some degree. Users all over the world can study, play, deploy php applications all they want. Php being 1 of the web's most popular server side scripting languages, employers have a hard time filtering out inexperienced users since they can present beautiful drupal, wordpress, joomla websites on their CV, yet have very little knowledge of what is actually going on, on the backend. Zend offers a solution for that, just like Red Hat linux, they have a certification program. Users pay a fee, report to the nearest testing center available to actually take the exam...if they pass, great...now they're Zend certified, but if they fail...they just spent hundreds of dollars on Nothing. TY and keep up the good fight, Matt full disclosure: I'm maintaining your privacy but I did post your replies to my g+ thread on this matter. I'll be participating in a conference call w/ Sen Warren on her new legislation to reduce student loan debt. I realize that is not the venue for me to bring up this topic, but since she asked for my opinion beforehand, so I tried to speak from a FLOSS perspective as much as possible, and replied to her office's email w/ a link to my post. I know, g+ & FLOSS, the irony. HaHa. But hopefully before the call on the june 3rd, somebody from her office may actually take a look at our conversation (and hopefully more contribute) and take it into consideration, perhaps even address it. If anyone on this list would like an invite to the conference call on the 3rd, let me know and I'll dig it up for you. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok, I'll try to be a bit more nuanced... > > Yep, I celebrated MIT's OCW years ago and have followed more recent > developments. Have registered for half a dozen classes on coursera & > udacity but haven't actually finished any of them. Particularly interested > that MITX is open source. > > Look - I'm no luddite, the benefits of increasing access to knowledge and > information are huge. > MOOCs provide a lot of promise but there's still a lot to be critical of. > The major MOOC players are for profit companies with unclear business > models (sofar: attract all the venture capitalists, get lots of students, > ???, profit!). The pedagogical approach is essentially broadcast -- one to > many -- it removes interaction and participation. > > We also have a ton of people with terminal degrees (and the massive debt > that degree implies) who would love to be teaching, but the jobs aren't > there. And state budgets are still fucked - underfunded Universities > raising tuition, increasing class sizes and reducing faculty. At some > level I don't trust administrators and state legislators to not throw the > baby out with the bathwater and leave us with an education system modeled > as broadcast media... hence my line about Clearchannel.. Higher ed > resembles that too much as it is. > > I'm lucky enough to have a course this quarter even if the pay is low and > there are no benefits (I actually made more as a TA, not even counting the > tuition subsidy!). Traditionally it was a "learn to adobe suite" class, > but I'm pushing FLOSS and html5 -- encouraging students to experiment with > free, cheap, funky and unfamiliar tools they've never heard of. It's > been a bit of a hard sell to students who for the most part just want to > learn what they see as 'tools of the trade' (ps, illustrator, flash, maya, > unity), but it's turning out pretty well. The struggle continues... > > I've encouraged my students to use online courseware and even linked to a > few on my syllabus. I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context > (alongside other external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums > and youtube howtos) as supplement to class material. > > peace &upheaval, > a > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you for your response, >> >> I see that you are familiar w/ openCourseWare as a concept, but have you >> logged into any of the systems and looked at a course or 2? Interaction >> between the professor and online consumer is nonexistent. Lectures are >> usually shot by a TA, or possibly a cam on a tripod, then uploaded / >> labeled / and forgotten. This is Fine. Teachers work very hard, whether >> they're HS teachers staying up late grading papers, or Professors burning >> the midnight oil trying to make these incredibly complex concepts palatable >> for their students in tomorrow's lecture. Users who use the openCourseWare >> programs, use them to learn simply because they want / need to for 1 reason >> or another. They do not expect to interact or have their hand held by >> professors of said courses. Let alone expect any tests to be graded or >> critiqued. But at this point, no credit or academic acknowledgement of the >> successful online/passive/self learner is attainable in any way. I simply >> suggest a possibility of creating an opportunity for the general edu >> society to provide a possible testing standard to accompany the technology >> that already exists. Revenue generated by these tests, would again, be paid >> out to the providers (you) themselves. Pretty much, you'd record the class >> your already teaching, and create a possible extra revenue stream w/out >> participating any more than uploading and labeling your own course >> syllabus. Lot's of different professors uploading the same courses, the >> testing standard can include a referral system for testers to provide the >> OCW professors they have viewed in order to feel confident enough to spend >> $ to test out of the course. If multiple referrals are provided, revenue >> can be split between all listed. >> >> For example, now if you would like to learn web development. You can go >> online, learn let's say php. Program a few sites, ask and respond to >> questions in forums (debugging other people's code while you yourself are >> waiting on an answer to your ? can help you learn different scenarios >> faster), then study the php maintainers' guide for their certification >> exam. Said exam will cost a pretty penny (sliding scale), so students will >> make sure that they fully grasp the material before they spend their own >> hard earned $ from working jobs at Carls Jr / Dominos pizza on a $200 - >> $500 test that they may end up failing. >> >> That specific part; "Many professors simply would like to teach as many >> people as possible", refers directly toward those professors who already >> provide OCW content. Allow me to pose this question. Would you like to see >> an America that was not so far behind academically in regard to the rest of >> the world? >> >> I'm confident that you, being an elite UCSC educator, would reply Yes to >> a question framed that way. >> >> In that case, wouldn't it be beneficial for the education community as a >> whole to embrace the system w/ that extra step of student incentive (course >> or vocation credit) to view all the lecture and course material that is >> already available. Since if they can and do grasp the material, that allows >> a disabled / financially challenged / or student w/ extenuating family >> circumstances to not only learn law / physics / psychology, but they would >> also have the ability to apply that to their CV. >> >> Thank you for your comments on this issue, >> Matt >> >> >> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:35 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Quick rant re: "Many professors simply would like to teach as many >>> people as possible". I have no interest in teaching "as many students as >>> possible", well.. let me rephrase. What's possible for me is about 24. >>> After that I can't remember their names, the projects they're working on, >>> their previous work, their strengths and their weaknesses. And if I don't >>> know those things, I can't speak to them as peers or provide guidance >>> worth-a-shit on their projects. Some things just don't scale. >>> >>> Can MOOCs replace large lecture classes? ...maybe. Although I know a >>> lot of young phds starting out in academia who are terrified that their >>> curriculum now has to compete with some elder MIT professor's video >>> channel. Like local radio DJs about to get displaced when Clearchannel >>> comes to town. >>> >>> -a >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Consider OpenCourseWare credit: >>>> >>>> A portal to search for courses from many of these OpenCourseWare >>>> providers is: >>>> >>>> http://www.ocwconsortium.org >>>> >>>> Many universities provide free education online to much of their >>>> syllabus. Few examples: >>>> >>>> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm, http://see.stanford.edu/, >>>> http://ocw.nd.edu/ >>>> >>>> >>>> Ability to test out at low cost if candidate qualifies as eligible; >>>> or unable to attend college , private or otherwise via disability, >>>> financial, family, or many other situations where Americans would not be >>>> able to afford or schedule traditional college. >>>> >>>> >>>> Incentive for students (obvious and many) >>>> >>>> >>>> Incentive for teachers: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Many professors simply would like to teach as many people as >>>> possible. This is evident due to the amount of OpenCourseWare available >>>> already today. Also, Mr. Lessig, Aaron's Swartz' legal advisor and >>>> friend >>>> mentioned as much in an interview with Chris Hayes. >>>> - >>>> >>>> JSTOR: the archive in Mr. Swartz's case, recently opened their >>>> archive with little to no objection from professors or universities. >>>> http://about.jstor.org/individuals >>>> - >>>> >>>> Any profit earned by the "low cost", listed above, would be paid >>>> 100% to the producers of the content aka Teachers. >>>> >>>> >>>> Cost mitigation: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Large files, such as lecture videos should embrace tried and true >>>> peer to peer tech like bittorrent protocols. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Regardless of controversy surrounding the protocol, it is an >>>> effective way to host very large files for very little bandwidth cost, >>>> as >>>> well as in many cases serve your students faster. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Universities/Corporations can host bittorrent "trackers" that do >>>> not allow submissions from anyone but authorized users or providers. >>>> - >>>> >>>> That way all files, and intellectual property responsibilities >>>> would be attached to the owners of the files. And moderators would only >>>> have to filter those authorized providers. >>>> >>>> >>>> Problems: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Some universities, and many community colleges profit will be >>>> affected negatively by such a project. But those universities have >>>> programs >>>> like the NCAA, and are/will be an aspiration for most of our successful >>>> students regardless of this alternative option. Those students, >>>> physically >>>> attending will have the advantage of hands-on labs in facilities they >>>> otherwise would never have access to as an online student. >>>> >>>> >>>> Other Points: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> There many commercials on tv for paid college programs where >>>> students can earn degrees. These programs can't be better than our >>>> Finest >>>> Universities? >>>> - >>>> >>>> Online may be argued as inferior, I wouldn't know, I would be >>>> interested in a hearing and study regarding efficacy of this type of >>>> program. But if this type of program would be regarded as inferior, >>>> degrees >>>> could reflect the type of education that the (now professionals) have >>>> received. But I don't see how this would not be considered >>>> discrimination >>>> as long as all students had to take the same tests, in the same type of >>>> environment. For example, a student studies a topic online, when they >>>> and >>>> the software feel the student is proficient, that student would then >>>> schedule a test at a local testing center. (Corp? College?) >>>> >>>> >>>> What is needed: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Long Term >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Bandwidth...it's that simple. If the government would provide funds >>>> for cloud services where needed, the benefits, considering US youth and >>>> society at large, would be exponential over the generations. The Beauty >>>> of >>>> cloud services is that if your system is not being used by the public, >>>> it >>>> costs Nothing. Code maintenance should be eligible for certain grants >>>> based >>>> on successful results, but at the same time, all should embrace the open >>>> source community (I.E. support and upgrades for a possibly standard CMS >>>> to >>>> be shared among the different providers). These costs can run from >>>> minimal >>>> all the way to free, it just depends on how much traffic these programs >>>> receive. If they're deployed in a clever way, each university could be >>>> mirrored by all the rest. In the case that school A is just about at >>>> it's >>>> max bandwidth limit; that would trigger a script to search the other >>>> mirrors for available bandwidth. It's possible, if done correctly, that >>>> a >>>> program like this could be inexpensive Even if popular. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Notes on Obama's speech on Student loans this morning 5/31/2013: >>>> >>>> Average student loan: $26,000 >>>> >>>> Obama's student loans cost more than his mortgage. While he was still >>>> paying student loans, he was saving for children's college, yet financially >>>> better off than most Americans. >>>> >>>> “Every young person should be able to access higher education” is an >>>> aspiration of our President since he was a Senator, running for the White >>>> House. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss > >
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