I'm a big fan of Sen Warren myself. I've paid attention to her since conception of CFPB (the B still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, since that was when R's blocked her from heading the CFPA and changed agency to bureau for some reason) and Yes, imho, I think you would be Incredibly helpful to the call. Much more so than myself if you have the time. Monday, June 3, 9 p.m. ET (8 CT/ 7 MT/ 6 PT) To RSVP or register to get connection info: http://action.workingfamiliesparty.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=8028
Anybody else interested is also welcome, if you'd like, pass the link around. OpenCongress.org has been working a little wonky lately, but here's a direct link to S.897 - Bank on Students Loan Fairness Act <http://www.opencongress.org/bill/113-s897/show> Interesting stuff about the dark side of open access journals. I'd like to copy the 1st 2 paragraphs as well to the g+ thread, but so I don't appear to be talking to myself, u could post? If you want to just stay off that thread and remain the mysterious Prof. A, no worries at all...just let it go. I'll copy / paste 2morrow along w/ the above reply. Thx for all On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 1:59 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]> wrote: > Heh.. Luddite need not be a pejorative -- the way it's generally used is > ARRGHH FIRE BAD TECHNOLOGY BAD, a fear or loathing of technology but their > story a bit more nuanced than that (and yet still counter-revolutionary). > Critical Art Ensemble's 'Slacker Luddites' is worth a look if you're > interested: http://www.critical-art.net/books/ecd/ecd4.pdf > > Agree there's definitely room for innovation around vocational > certifications - ideally in a way that changes the incentives towards open > technology. I wonder how many millions of tax dollars used for job > retraining have been spent certifying people in proprietary ecosystems (MS > certs &such at community colleges). I haven't thought much about > certification specifically but Mozilla's open badges ( > https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges) seems like a key component so long as > the system doesn't get too polluted by badgemills (like a parallel to the > rising trend of predatory open access ~"journals" > http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/04/09/the-dark-side-of-open-access-journals/ > ) > > Big fan of Warren in general and this bill in particular. Happy to > participate if you think it's helpful to the conversation. > > -a > > > On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: > >> "The struggle continues", Love it! >> >> Thank you very much for your feedback sir. I appreciate it, especially >> from an educator's POV. I never intended to leave any implication that I >> believed you were somehow a "luddite" (yes, I had to look it up ;) ), quite >> the contrary, just the mere fact that we are having this discussion on this >> mailing list implies the opposite. >> >> I think it's great that your teaching FLOSS and html5/css3 technologies. >> I work w/ many of these tools everyday. Eclipse, bluefish, local LAMP env, >> etc... >> >> "I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context (alongside other >> external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums and youtube >> howtos) as supplement to class material." I believe these tools are >> invaluable to even classroom participants, let alone students/consultants >> like myself. >> >> The question I still have is, what would be a pragmatic way to apply >> vocational certifications or credits to Open Source students? Would you >> agree at all w/ my earlier suggestion? Which is basically subsidizing >> underprivileged students for vocational certifications. They study >> themselves, gov assist w/ the cost of certification testing. >> >> For example, php is FOSS software, yet Zend.com maintains the core of the >> language to some degree. Users all over the world can study, play, deploy >> php applications all they want. Php being 1 of the web's most popular >> server side scripting languages, employers have a hard time filtering out >> inexperienced users since they can present beautiful drupal, wordpress, >> joomla websites on their CV, yet have very little knowledge of what is >> actually going on, on the backend. Zend offers a solution for that, just >> like Red Hat linux, they have a certification program. Users pay a fee, >> report to the nearest testing center available to actually take the >> exam...if they pass, great...now they're Zend certified, but if they >> fail...they just spent hundreds of dollars on Nothing. >> >> TY and keep up the good fight, >> Matt >> >> full disclosure: I'm maintaining your privacy but I did post your replies >> to my g+ thread on this matter. I'll be participating in a conference call >> w/ Sen Warren on her new legislation to reduce student loan debt. I realize >> that is not the venue for me to bring up this topic, but since she asked >> for my opinion beforehand, so I tried to speak from a FLOSS perspective as >> much as possible, and replied to her office's email w/ a link to my post. I >> know, g+ & FLOSS, the irony. HaHa. But hopefully before the call on the >> june 3rd, somebody from her office may actually take a look at our >> conversation (and hopefully more contribute) and take it into >> consideration, perhaps even address it. If anyone on this list would like >> an invite to the conference call on the 3rd, let me know and I'll dig it up >> for you. >> >> >> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Ok, I'll try to be a bit more nuanced... >>> >>> Yep, I celebrated MIT's OCW years ago and have followed more recent >>> developments. Have registered for half a dozen classes on coursera & >>> udacity but haven't actually finished any of them. Particularly interested >>> that MITX is open source. >>> >>> Look - I'm no luddite, the benefits of increasing access to knowledge >>> and information are huge. >>> MOOCs provide a lot of promise but there's still a lot to be critical >>> of. The major MOOC players are for profit companies with unclear business >>> models (sofar: attract all the venture capitalists, get lots of students, >>> ???, profit!). The pedagogical approach is essentially broadcast -- one to >>> many -- it removes interaction and participation. >>> >>> We also have a ton of people with terminal degrees (and the massive debt >>> that degree implies) who would love to be teaching, but the jobs aren't >>> there. And state budgets are still fucked - underfunded Universities >>> raising tuition, increasing class sizes and reducing faculty. At some >>> level I don't trust administrators and state legislators to not throw the >>> baby out with the bathwater and leave us with an education system modeled >>> as broadcast media... hence my line about Clearchannel.. Higher ed >>> resembles that too much as it is. >>> >>> I'm lucky enough to have a course this quarter even if the pay is low >>> and there are no benefits (I actually made more as a TA, not even counting >>> the tuition subsidy!). Traditionally it was a "learn to adobe suite" >>> class, but I'm pushing FLOSS and html5 -- encouraging students to >>> experiment with free, cheap, funky and unfamiliar tools they've never heard >>> of. It's been a bit of a hard sell to students who for the most part >>> just want to learn what they see as 'tools of the trade' (ps, illustrator, >>> flash, maya, unity), but it's turning out pretty well. The struggle >>> continues... >>> >>> I've encouraged my students to use online courseware and even linked to >>> a few on my syllabus. I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context >>> (alongside other external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums >>> and youtube howtos) as supplement to class material. >>> >>> peace &upheaval, >>> a >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you for your response, >>>> >>>> I see that you are familiar w/ openCourseWare as a concept, but have >>>> you logged into any of the systems and looked at a course or 2? Interaction >>>> between the professor and online consumer is nonexistent. Lectures are >>>> usually shot by a TA, or possibly a cam on a tripod, then uploaded / >>>> labeled / and forgotten. This is Fine. Teachers work very hard, whether >>>> they're HS teachers staying up late grading papers, or Professors burning >>>> the midnight oil trying to make these incredibly complex concepts palatable >>>> for their students in tomorrow's lecture. Users who use the openCourseWare >>>> programs, use them to learn simply because they want / need to for 1 reason >>>> or another. They do not expect to interact or have their hand held by >>>> professors of said courses. Let alone expect any tests to be graded or >>>> critiqued. But at this point, no credit or academic acknowledgement of the >>>> successful online/passive/self learner is attainable in any way. I simply >>>> suggest a possibility of creating an opportunity for the general edu >>>> society to provide a possible testing standard to accompany the technology >>>> that already exists. Revenue generated by these tests, would again, be paid >>>> out to the providers (you) themselves. Pretty much, you'd record the class >>>> your already teaching, and create a possible extra revenue stream w/out >>>> participating any more than uploading and labeling your own course >>>> syllabus. Lot's of different professors uploading the same courses, the >>>> testing standard can include a referral system for testers to provide the >>>> OCW professors they have viewed in order to feel confident enough to spend >>>> $ to test out of the course. If multiple referrals are provided, revenue >>>> can be split between all listed. >>>> >>>> For example, now if you would like to learn web development. You can go >>>> online, learn let's say php. Program a few sites, ask and respond to >>>> questions in forums (debugging other people's code while you yourself are >>>> waiting on an answer to your ? can help you learn different scenarios >>>> faster), then study the php maintainers' guide for their certification >>>> exam. Said exam will cost a pretty penny (sliding scale), so students will >>>> make sure that they fully grasp the material before they spend their own >>>> hard earned $ from working jobs at Carls Jr / Dominos pizza on a $200 - >>>> $500 test that they may end up failing. >>>> >>>> That specific part; "Many professors simply would like to teach as many >>>> people as possible", refers directly toward those professors who already >>>> provide OCW content. Allow me to pose this question. Would you like to see >>>> an America that was not so far behind academically in regard to the rest of >>>> the world? >>>> >>>> I'm confident that you, being an elite UCSC educator, would reply Yes >>>> to a question framed that way. >>>> >>>> In that case, wouldn't it be beneficial for the education community as >>>> a whole to embrace the system w/ that extra step of student incentive >>>> (course or vocation credit) to view all the lecture and course material >>>> that is already available. Since if they can and do grasp the material, >>>> that allows a disabled / financially challenged / or student w/ extenuating >>>> family circumstances to not only learn law / physics / psychology, but they >>>> would also have the ability to apply that to their CV. >>>> >>>> Thank you for your comments on this issue, >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:35 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Quick rant re: "Many professors simply would like to teach as many >>>>> people as possible". I have no interest in teaching "as many students as >>>>> possible", well.. let me rephrase. What's possible for me is about 24. >>>>> After that I can't remember their names, the projects they're working on, >>>>> their previous work, their strengths and their weaknesses. And if I don't >>>>> know those things, I can't speak to them as peers or provide guidance >>>>> worth-a-shit on their projects. Some things just don't scale. >>>>> >>>>> Can MOOCs replace large lecture classes? ...maybe. Although I know a >>>>> lot of young phds starting out in academia who are terrified that their >>>>> curriculum now has to compete with some elder MIT professor's video >>>>> channel. Like local radio DJs about to get displaced when Clearchannel >>>>> comes to town. >>>>> >>>>> -a >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Consider OpenCourseWare credit: >>>>>> >>>>>> A portal to search for courses from many of these OpenCourseWare >>>>>> providers is: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ocwconsortium.org >>>>>> >>>>>> Many universities provide free education online to much of their >>>>>> syllabus. Few examples: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm, http://see.stanford.edu/, >>>>>> http://ocw.nd.edu/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ability to test out at low cost if candidate qualifies as eligible; >>>>>> or unable to attend college , private or otherwise via disability, >>>>>> financial, family, or many other situations where Americans would not be >>>>>> able to afford or schedule traditional college. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Incentive for students (obvious and many) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Incentive for teachers: >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Many professors simply would like to teach as many people as >>>>>> possible. This is evident due to the amount of OpenCourseWare >>>>>> available >>>>>> already today. Also, Mr. Lessig, Aaron's Swartz' legal advisor and >>>>>> friend >>>>>> mentioned as much in an interview with Chris Hayes. >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> JSTOR: the archive in Mr. Swartz's case, recently opened their >>>>>> archive with little to no objection from professors or universities. >>>>>> http://about.jstor.org/individuals >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Any profit earned by the "low cost", listed above, would be paid >>>>>> 100% to the producers of the content aka Teachers. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cost mitigation: >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Large files, such as lecture videos should embrace tried and true >>>>>> peer to peer tech like bittorrent protocols. >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Regardless of controversy surrounding the protocol, it is an >>>>>> effective way to host very large files for very little bandwidth >>>>>> cost, as >>>>>> well as in many cases serve your students faster. >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Universities/Corporations can host bittorrent "trackers" that do >>>>>> not allow submissions from anyone but authorized users or providers. >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> That way all files, and intellectual property responsibilities >>>>>> would be attached to the owners of the files. And moderators would >>>>>> only >>>>>> have to filter those authorized providers. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Problems: >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Some universities, and many community colleges profit will be >>>>>> affected negatively by such a project. But those universities have >>>>>> programs >>>>>> like the NCAA, and are/will be an aspiration for most of our >>>>>> successful >>>>>> students regardless of this alternative option. Those students, >>>>>> physically >>>>>> attending will have the advantage of hands-on labs in facilities they >>>>>> otherwise would never have access to as an online student. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Other Points: >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> There many commercials on tv for paid college programs where >>>>>> students can earn degrees. These programs can't be better than our >>>>>> Finest >>>>>> Universities? >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Online may be argued as inferior, I wouldn't know, I would be >>>>>> interested in a hearing and study regarding efficacy of this type of >>>>>> program. But if this type of program would be regarded as inferior, >>>>>> degrees >>>>>> could reflect the type of education that the (now professionals) have >>>>>> received. But I don't see how this would not be considered >>>>>> discrimination >>>>>> as long as all students had to take the same tests, in the same type >>>>>> of >>>>>> environment. For example, a student studies a topic online, when they >>>>>> and >>>>>> the software feel the student is proficient, that student would then >>>>>> schedule a test at a local testing center. (Corp? College?) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What is needed: >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Long Term >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - >>>>>> >>>>>> Bandwidth...it's that simple. If the government would provide >>>>>> funds for cloud services where needed, the benefits, considering US >>>>>> youth >>>>>> and society at large, would be exponential over the generations. The >>>>>> Beauty >>>>>> of cloud services is that if your system is not being used by the >>>>>> public, >>>>>> it costs Nothing. Code maintenance should be eligible for certain >>>>>> grants >>>>>> based on successful results, but at the same time, all should embrace >>>>>> the >>>>>> open source community (I.E. support and upgrades for a possibly >>>>>> standard >>>>>> CMS to be shared among the different providers). These costs can run >>>>>> from >>>>>> minimal all the way to free, it just depends on how much traffic these >>>>>> programs receive. If they're deployed in a clever way, each university >>>>>> could be mirrored by all the rest. In the case that school A is just >>>>>> about >>>>>> at it's max bandwidth limit; that would trigger a script to search the >>>>>> other mirrors for available bandwidth. It's possible, if done >>>>>> correctly, >>>>>> that a program like this could be inexpensive Even if popular. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Notes on Obama's speech on Student loans this morning 5/31/2013: >>>>>> >>>>>> Average student loan: $26,000 >>>>>> >>>>>> Obama's student loans cost more than his mortgage. While he was still >>>>>> paying student loans, he was saving for children's college, yet >>>>>> financially >>>>>> better off than most Americans. >>>>>> >>>>>> “Every young person should be able to access higher education” is an >>>>>> aspiration of our President since he was a Senator, running for the White >>>>>> House. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss > >
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