Sorry for the promotion, but if you want to follow the bill, Scout (which I built) will send out RSS or email notifications as soon as any action or announcements about S.897 happen:
https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/s897-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act The House companion is H.R. 1979<https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/hr1979-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act> . -- Eric On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm a big fan of Sen Warren myself. I've paid attention to her since > conception of CFPB (the B still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, since that > was when R's blocked her from heading the CFPA and changed agency to bureau > for some reason) and Yes, imho, I think you would be Incredibly helpful to > the call. Much more so than myself if you have the time. Monday, June 3, > 9 p.m. ET (8 CT/ 7 MT/ 6 PT) > To RSVP or register to get connection info: > > http://action.workingfamiliesparty.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=8028 > > Anybody else interested is also welcome, if you'd like, pass the link > around. > > OpenCongress.org has been working a little wonky lately, but here's a > direct link to S.897 - Bank on Students Loan Fairness Act > <http://www.opencongress.org/bill/113-s897/show> > > Interesting stuff about the dark side of open access journals. I'd like to > copy the 1st 2 paragraphs as well to the g+ thread, but so I don't appear > to be talking to myself, u could post? If you want to just stay off that > thread and remain the mysterious Prof. A, no worries at all...just let it > go. I'll copy / paste 2morrow along w/ the above reply. > > Thx for all > > > On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 1:59 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Heh.. Luddite need not be a pejorative -- the way it's generally used is >> ARRGHH FIRE BAD TECHNOLOGY BAD, a fear or loathing of technology but their >> story a bit more nuanced than that (and yet still counter-revolutionary). >> Critical Art Ensemble's 'Slacker Luddites' is worth a look if you're >> interested: http://www.critical-art.net/books/ecd/ecd4.pdf >> >> Agree there's definitely room for innovation around vocational >> certifications - ideally in a way that changes the incentives towards open >> technology. I wonder how many millions of tax dollars used for job >> retraining have been spent certifying people in proprietary ecosystems (MS >> certs &such at community colleges). I haven't thought much about >> certification specifically but Mozilla's open badges ( >> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges) seems like a key component so long as >> the system doesn't get too polluted by badgemills (like a parallel to the >> rising trend of predatory open access ~"journals" >> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/04/09/the-dark-side-of-open-access-journals/ >> ) >> >> Big fan of Warren in general and this bill in particular. Happy to >> participate if you think it's helpful to the conversation. >> >> -a >> >> >> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> "The struggle continues", Love it! >>> >>> Thank you very much for your feedback sir. I appreciate it, especially >>> from an educator's POV. I never intended to leave any implication that I >>> believed you were somehow a "luddite" (yes, I had to look it up ;) ), quite >>> the contrary, just the mere fact that we are having this discussion on this >>> mailing list implies the opposite. >>> >>> I think it's great that your teaching FLOSS and html5/css3 technologies. >>> I work w/ many of these tools everyday. Eclipse, bluefish, local LAMP env, >>> etc... >>> >>> "I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context (alongside other >>> external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums and youtube >>> howtos) as supplement to class material." I believe these tools are >>> invaluable to even classroom participants, let alone students/consultants >>> like myself. >>> >>> The question I still have is, what would be a pragmatic way to apply >>> vocational certifications or credits to Open Source students? Would you >>> agree at all w/ my earlier suggestion? Which is basically subsidizing >>> underprivileged students for vocational certifications. They study >>> themselves, gov assist w/ the cost of certification testing. >>> >>> For example, php is FOSS software, yet Zend.com maintains the core of >>> the language to some degree. Users all over the world can study, play, >>> deploy php applications all they want. Php being 1 of the web's most >>> popular server side scripting languages, employers have a hard time >>> filtering out inexperienced users since they can present beautiful drupal, >>> wordpress, joomla websites on their CV, yet have very little knowledge of >>> what is actually going on, on the backend. Zend offers a solution for that, >>> just like Red Hat linux, they have a certification program. Users pay a >>> fee, report to the nearest testing center available to actually take the >>> exam...if they pass, great...now they're Zend certified, but if they >>> fail...they just spent hundreds of dollars on Nothing. >>> >>> TY and keep up the good fight, >>> Matt >>> >>> full disclosure: I'm maintaining your privacy but I did post your >>> replies to my g+ thread on this matter. I'll be participating in a >>> conference call w/ Sen Warren on her new legislation to reduce student loan >>> debt. I realize that is not the venue for me to bring up this topic, but >>> since she asked for my opinion beforehand, so I tried to speak from a FLOSS >>> perspective as much as possible, and replied to her office's email w/ a >>> link to my post. I know, g+ & FLOSS, the irony. HaHa. But hopefully before >>> the call on the june 3rd, somebody from her office may actually take a look >>> at our conversation (and hopefully more contribute) and take it into >>> consideration, perhaps even address it. If anyone on this list would like >>> an invite to the conference call on the 3rd, let me know and I'll dig it up >>> for you. >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Ok, I'll try to be a bit more nuanced... >>>> >>>> Yep, I celebrated MIT's OCW years ago and have followed more recent >>>> developments. Have registered for half a dozen classes on coursera & >>>> udacity but haven't actually finished any of them. Particularly interested >>>> that MITX is open source. >>>> >>>> Look - I'm no luddite, the benefits of increasing access to knowledge >>>> and information are huge. >>>> MOOCs provide a lot of promise but there's still a lot to be critical >>>> of. The major MOOC players are for profit companies with unclear business >>>> models (sofar: attract all the venture capitalists, get lots of students, >>>> ???, profit!). The pedagogical approach is essentially broadcast -- one to >>>> many -- it removes interaction and participation. >>>> >>>> We also have a ton of people with terminal degrees (and the massive >>>> debt that degree implies) who would love to be teaching, but the jobs >>>> aren't there. And state budgets are still fucked - underfunded >>>> Universities raising tuition, increasing class sizes and reducing faculty. >>>> At some level I don't trust administrators and state legislators to not >>>> throw the baby out with the bathwater and leave us with an education system >>>> modeled as broadcast media... hence my line about Clearchannel.. Higher >>>> ed resembles that too much as it is. >>>> >>>> I'm lucky enough to have a course this quarter even if the pay is low >>>> and there are no benefits (I actually made more as a TA, not even counting >>>> the tuition subsidy!). Traditionally it was a "learn to adobe suite" >>>> class, but I'm pushing FLOSS and html5 -- encouraging students to >>>> experiment with free, cheap, funky and unfamiliar tools they've never heard >>>> of. It's been a bit of a hard sell to students who for the most part >>>> just want to learn what they see as 'tools of the trade' (ps, illustrator, >>>> flash, maya, unity), but it's turning out pretty well. The struggle >>>> continues... >>>> >>>> I've encouraged my students to use online courseware and even linked to >>>> a few on my syllabus. I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context >>>> (alongside other external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums >>>> and youtube howtos) as supplement to class material. >>>> >>>> peace &upheaval, >>>> a >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you for your response, >>>>> >>>>> I see that you are familiar w/ openCourseWare as a concept, but have >>>>> you logged into any of the systems and looked at a course or 2? >>>>> Interaction >>>>> between the professor and online consumer is nonexistent. Lectures are >>>>> usually shot by a TA, or possibly a cam on a tripod, then uploaded / >>>>> labeled / and forgotten. This is Fine. Teachers work very hard, whether >>>>> they're HS teachers staying up late grading papers, or Professors burning >>>>> the midnight oil trying to make these incredibly complex concepts >>>>> palatable >>>>> for their students in tomorrow's lecture. Users who use the openCourseWare >>>>> programs, use them to learn simply because they want / need to for 1 >>>>> reason >>>>> or another. They do not expect to interact or have their hand held by >>>>> professors of said courses. Let alone expect any tests to be graded or >>>>> critiqued. But at this point, no credit or academic acknowledgement of the >>>>> successful online/passive/self learner is attainable in any way. I simply >>>>> suggest a possibility of creating an opportunity for the general edu >>>>> society to provide a possible testing standard to accompany the technology >>>>> that already exists. Revenue generated by these tests, would again, be >>>>> paid >>>>> out to the providers (you) themselves. Pretty much, you'd record the class >>>>> your already teaching, and create a possible extra revenue stream w/out >>>>> participating any more than uploading and labeling your own course >>>>> syllabus. Lot's of different professors uploading the same courses, the >>>>> testing standard can include a referral system for testers to provide the >>>>> OCW professors they have viewed in order to feel confident enough to spend >>>>> $ to test out of the course. If multiple referrals are provided, revenue >>>>> can be split between all listed. >>>>> >>>>> For example, now if you would like to learn web development. You can >>>>> go online, learn let's say php. Program a few sites, ask and respond to >>>>> questions in forums (debugging other people's code while you yourself are >>>>> waiting on an answer to your ? can help you learn different scenarios >>>>> faster), then study the php maintainers' guide for their certification >>>>> exam. Said exam will cost a pretty penny (sliding scale), so students will >>>>> make sure that they fully grasp the material before they spend their own >>>>> hard earned $ from working jobs at Carls Jr / Dominos pizza on a $200 - >>>>> $500 test that they may end up failing. >>>>> >>>>> That specific part; "Many professors simply would like to teach as >>>>> many people as possible", refers directly toward those professors who >>>>> already provide OCW content. Allow me to pose this question. Would you >>>>> like >>>>> to see an America that was not so far behind academically in regard to the >>>>> rest of the world? >>>>> >>>>> I'm confident that you, being an elite UCSC educator, would reply Yes >>>>> to a question framed that way. >>>>> >>>>> In that case, wouldn't it be beneficial for the education community as >>>>> a whole to embrace the system w/ that extra step of student incentive >>>>> (course or vocation credit) to view all the lecture and course material >>>>> that is already available. Since if they can and do grasp the material, >>>>> that allows a disabled / financially challenged / or student w/ >>>>> extenuating >>>>> family circumstances to not only learn law / physics / psychology, but >>>>> they >>>>> would also have the ability to apply that to their CV. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for your comments on this issue, >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:35 PM, abram stern (aphid) >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Quick rant re: "Many professors simply would like to teach as many >>>>>> people as possible". I have no interest in teaching "as many students as >>>>>> possible", well.. let me rephrase. What's possible for me is about 24. >>>>>> After that I can't remember their names, the projects they're working on, >>>>>> their previous work, their strengths and their weaknesses. And if I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> know those things, I can't speak to them as peers or provide guidance >>>>>> worth-a-shit on their projects. Some things just don't scale. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can MOOCs replace large lecture classes? ...maybe. Although I know a >>>>>> lot of young phds starting out in academia who are terrified that their >>>>>> curriculum now has to compete with some elder MIT professor's video >>>>>> channel. Like local radio DJs about to get displaced when Clearchannel >>>>>> comes to town. >>>>>> >>>>>> -a >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Consider OpenCourseWare credit: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A portal to search for courses from many of these OpenCourseWare >>>>>>> providers is: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.ocwconsortium.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many universities provide free education online to much of their >>>>>>> syllabus. Few examples: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm, http://see.stanford.edu/, >>>>>>> http://ocw.nd.edu/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ability to test out at low cost if candidate qualifies as >>>>>>> eligible; or unable to attend college , private or otherwise via >>>>>>> disability, financial, family, or many other situations where Americans >>>>>>> would not be able to afford or schedule traditional college. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Incentive for students (obvious and many) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Incentive for teachers: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Many professors simply would like to teach as many people as >>>>>>> possible. This is evident due to the amount of OpenCourseWare >>>>>>> available >>>>>>> already today. Also, Mr. Lessig, Aaron's Swartz' legal advisor and >>>>>>> friend >>>>>>> mentioned as much in an interview with Chris Hayes. >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> JSTOR: the archive in Mr. Swartz's case, recently opened their >>>>>>> archive with little to no objection from professors or universities. >>>>>>> http://about.jstor.org/individuals >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any profit earned by the "low cost", listed above, would be paid >>>>>>> 100% to the producers of the content aka Teachers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cost mitigation: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Large files, such as lecture videos should embrace tried and >>>>>>> true peer to peer tech like bittorrent protocols. >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regardless of controversy surrounding the protocol, it is an >>>>>>> effective way to host very large files for very little bandwidth >>>>>>> cost, as >>>>>>> well as in many cases serve your students faster. >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Universities/Corporations can host bittorrent "trackers" that do >>>>>>> not allow submissions from anyone but authorized users or providers. >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That way all files, and intellectual property responsibilities >>>>>>> would be attached to the owners of the files. And moderators would >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> have to filter those authorized providers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Problems: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some universities, and many community colleges profit will be >>>>>>> affected negatively by such a project. But those universities have >>>>>>> programs >>>>>>> like the NCAA, and are/will be an aspiration for most of our >>>>>>> successful >>>>>>> students regardless of this alternative option. Those students, >>>>>>> physically >>>>>>> attending will have the advantage of hands-on labs in facilities they >>>>>>> otherwise would never have access to as an online student. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Other Points: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There many commercials on tv for paid college programs where >>>>>>> students can earn degrees. These programs can't be better than our >>>>>>> Finest >>>>>>> Universities? >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Online may be argued as inferior, I wouldn't know, I would be >>>>>>> interested in a hearing and study regarding efficacy of this type of >>>>>>> program. But if this type of program would be regarded as inferior, >>>>>>> degrees >>>>>>> could reflect the type of education that the (now professionals) have >>>>>>> received. But I don't see how this would not be considered >>>>>>> discrimination >>>>>>> as long as all students had to take the same tests, in the same type >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> environment. For example, a student studies a topic online, when >>>>>>> they and >>>>>>> the software feel the student is proficient, that student would then >>>>>>> schedule a test at a local testing center. (Corp? College?) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What is needed: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Long Term >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bandwidth...it's that simple. If the government would provide >>>>>>> funds for cloud services where needed, the benefits, considering US >>>>>>> youth >>>>>>> and society at large, would be exponential over the generations. The >>>>>>> Beauty >>>>>>> of cloud services is that if your system is not being used by the >>>>>>> public, >>>>>>> it costs Nothing. Code maintenance should be eligible for certain >>>>>>> grants >>>>>>> based on successful results, but at the same time, all should >>>>>>> embrace the >>>>>>> open source community (I.E. support and upgrades for a possibly >>>>>>> standard >>>>>>> CMS to be shared among the different providers). These costs can run >>>>>>> from >>>>>>> minimal all the way to free, it just depends on how much traffic >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> programs receive. If they're deployed in a clever way, each >>>>>>> university >>>>>>> could be mirrored by all the rest. In the case that school A is just >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> at it's max bandwidth limit; that would trigger a script to search >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> other mirrors for available bandwidth. It's possible, if done >>>>>>> correctly, >>>>>>> that a program like this could be inexpensive Even if popular. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Notes on Obama's speech on Student loans this morning 5/31/2013: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Average student loan: $26,000 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Obama's student loans cost more than his mortgage. While he was >>>>>>> still paying student loans, he was saving for children's college, yet >>>>>>> financially better off than most Americans. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> “Every young person should be able to access higher education” is an >>>>>>> aspiration of our President since he was a Senator, running for the >>>>>>> White >>>>>>> House. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss > > -- @konklone <http://twitter.com/konklone> | konklone.com | sunlightfoundation.com | awesomefoundation.org
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