Morning Eric, no need to apologize. Checking it out. TY On Jun 2, 2013 9:44 AM, "Eric Mill" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Sorry for the promotion, but if you want to follow the bill, Scout (which > I built) will send out RSS or email notifications as soon as any action or > announcements about S.897 happen: > > > https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/s897-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act > > The House companion is H.R. > 1979<https://scout.sunlightfoundation.com/item/bill/hr1979-113/bank-on-students-loan-fairness-act> > . > > -- Eric > > > On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 3:11 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm a big fan of Sen Warren myself. I've paid attention to her since >> conception of CFPB (the B still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, since that >> was when R's blocked her from heading the CFPA and changed agency to bureau >> for some reason) and Yes, imho, I think you would be Incredibly helpful to >> the call. Much more so than myself if you have the time. Monday, June 3, >> 9 p.m. ET (8 CT/ 7 MT/ 6 PT) >> To RSVP or register to get connection info: >> >> http://action.workingfamiliesparty.org/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=8028 >> >> Anybody else interested is also welcome, if you'd like, pass the link >> around. >> >> OpenCongress.org has been working a little wonky lately, but here's a >> direct link to S.897 - Bank on Students Loan Fairness Act >> <http://www.opencongress.org/bill/113-s897/show> >> >> Interesting stuff about the dark side of open access journals. I'd like >> to copy the 1st 2 paragraphs as well to the g+ thread, but so I don't >> appear to be talking to myself, u could post? If you want to just stay off >> that thread and remain the mysterious Prof. A, no worries at all...just let >> it go. I'll copy / paste 2morrow along w/ the above reply. >> >> Thx for all >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 1, 2013 at 1:59 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Heh.. Luddite need not be a pejorative -- the way it's generally used is >>> ARRGHH FIRE BAD TECHNOLOGY BAD, a fear or loathing of technology but their >>> story a bit more nuanced than that (and yet still counter-revolutionary). >>> Critical Art Ensemble's 'Slacker Luddites' is worth a look if you're >>> interested: http://www.critical-art.net/books/ecd/ecd4.pdf >>> >>> Agree there's definitely room for innovation around vocational >>> certifications - ideally in a way that changes the incentives towards open >>> technology. I wonder how many millions of tax dollars used for job >>> retraining have been spent certifying people in proprietary ecosystems (MS >>> certs &such at community colleges). I haven't thought much about >>> certification specifically but Mozilla's open badges ( >>> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges) seems like a key component so long as >>> the system doesn't get too polluted by badgemills (like a parallel to the >>> rising trend of predatory open access ~"journals" >>> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/04/09/the-dark-side-of-open-access-journals/ >>> ) >>> >>> Big fan of Warren in general and this bill in particular. Happy to >>> participate if you think it's helpful to the conversation. >>> >>> -a >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> "The struggle continues", Love it! >>>> >>>> Thank you very much for your feedback sir. I appreciate it, especially >>>> from an educator's POV. I never intended to leave any implication that I >>>> believed you were somehow a "luddite" (yes, I had to look it up ;) ), quite >>>> the contrary, just the mere fact that we are having this discussion on this >>>> mailing list implies the opposite. >>>> >>>> I think it's great that your teaching FLOSS and html5/css3 >>>> technologies. I work w/ many of these tools everyday. Eclipse, bluefish, >>>> local LAMP env, etc... >>>> >>>> "I think OCW is particularly valuable in this context (alongside other >>>> external tutorials, various projects' irc channels, forums and youtube >>>> howtos) as supplement to class material." I believe these tools are >>>> invaluable to even classroom participants, let alone students/consultants >>>> like myself. >>>> >>>> The question I still have is, what would be a pragmatic way to apply >>>> vocational certifications or credits to Open Source students? Would you >>>> agree at all w/ my earlier suggestion? Which is basically subsidizing >>>> underprivileged students for vocational certifications. They study >>>> themselves, gov assist w/ the cost of certification testing. >>>> >>>> For example, php is FOSS software, yet Zend.com maintains the core of >>>> the language to some degree. Users all over the world can study, play, >>>> deploy php applications all they want. Php being 1 of the web's most >>>> popular server side scripting languages, employers have a hard time >>>> filtering out inexperienced users since they can present beautiful drupal, >>>> wordpress, joomla websites on their CV, yet have very little knowledge of >>>> what is actually going on, on the backend. Zend offers a solution for that, >>>> just like Red Hat linux, they have a certification program. Users pay a >>>> fee, report to the nearest testing center available to actually take the >>>> exam...if they pass, great...now they're Zend certified, but if they >>>> fail...they just spent hundreds of dollars on Nothing. >>>> >>>> TY and keep up the good fight, >>>> Matt >>>> >>>> full disclosure: I'm maintaining your privacy but I did post your >>>> replies to my g+ thread on this matter. I'll be participating in a >>>> conference call w/ Sen Warren on her new legislation to reduce student loan >>>> debt. I realize that is not the venue for me to bring up this topic, but >>>> since she asked for my opinion beforehand, so I tried to speak from a FLOSS >>>> perspective as much as possible, and replied to her office's email w/ a >>>> link to my post. I know, g+ & FLOSS, the irony. HaHa. But hopefully before >>>> the call on the june 3rd, somebody from her office may actually take a look >>>> at our conversation (and hopefully more contribute) and take it into >>>> consideration, perhaps even address it. If anyone on this list would like >>>> an invite to the conference call on the 3rd, let me know and I'll dig it up >>>> for you. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, abram stern (aphid) <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ok, I'll try to be a bit more nuanced... >>>>> >>>>> Yep, I celebrated MIT's OCW years ago and have followed more recent >>>>> developments. Have registered for half a dozen classes on coursera & >>>>> udacity but haven't actually finished any of them. Particularly >>>>> interested >>>>> that MITX is open source. >>>>> >>>>> Look - I'm no luddite, the benefits of increasing access to knowledge >>>>> and information are huge. >>>>> MOOCs provide a lot of promise but there's still a lot to be critical >>>>> of. The major MOOC players are for profit companies with unclear business >>>>> models (sofar: attract all the venture capitalists, get lots of students, >>>>> ???, profit!). The pedagogical approach is essentially broadcast -- one >>>>> to >>>>> many -- it removes interaction and participation. >>>>> >>>>> We also have a ton of people with terminal degrees (and the massive >>>>> debt that degree implies) who would love to be teaching, but the jobs >>>>> aren't there. And state budgets are still fucked - underfunded >>>>> Universities raising tuition, increasing class sizes and reducing faculty. >>>>> At some level I don't trust administrators and state legislators to not >>>>> throw the baby out with the bathwater and leave us with an education >>>>> system >>>>> modeled as broadcast media... hence my line about Clearchannel.. Higher >>>>> ed resembles that too much as it is. >>>>> >>>>> I'm lucky enough to have a course this quarter even if the pay is low >>>>> and there are no benefits (I actually made more as a TA, not even counting >>>>> the tuition subsidy!). Traditionally it was a "learn to adobe suite" >>>>> class, but I'm pushing FLOSS and html5 -- encouraging students to >>>>> experiment with free, cheap, funky and unfamiliar tools they've never >>>>> heard >>>>> of. It's been a bit of a hard sell to students who for the most part >>>>> just want to learn what they see as 'tools of the trade' (ps, illustrator, >>>>> flash, maya, unity), but it's turning out pretty well. The struggle >>>>> continues... >>>>> >>>>> I've encouraged my students to use online courseware and even linked >>>>> to a few on my syllabus. I think OCW is particularly valuable in this >>>>> context (alongside other external tutorials, various projects' irc >>>>> channels, forums and youtube howtos) as supplement to class material. >>>>> >>>>> peace &upheaval, >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your response, >>>>>> >>>>>> I see that you are familiar w/ openCourseWare as a concept, but have >>>>>> you logged into any of the systems and looked at a course or 2? >>>>>> Interaction >>>>>> between the professor and online consumer is nonexistent. Lectures are >>>>>> usually shot by a TA, or possibly a cam on a tripod, then uploaded / >>>>>> labeled / and forgotten. This is Fine. Teachers work very hard, whether >>>>>> they're HS teachers staying up late grading papers, or Professors burning >>>>>> the midnight oil trying to make these incredibly complex concepts >>>>>> palatable >>>>>> for their students in tomorrow's lecture. Users who use the >>>>>> openCourseWare >>>>>> programs, use them to learn simply because they want / need to for 1 >>>>>> reason >>>>>> or another. They do not expect to interact or have their hand held by >>>>>> professors of said courses. Let alone expect any tests to be graded or >>>>>> critiqued. But at this point, no credit or academic acknowledgement of >>>>>> the >>>>>> successful online/passive/self learner is attainable in any way. I simply >>>>>> suggest a possibility of creating an opportunity for the general edu >>>>>> society to provide a possible testing standard to accompany the >>>>>> technology >>>>>> that already exists. Revenue generated by these tests, would again, be >>>>>> paid >>>>>> out to the providers (you) themselves. Pretty much, you'd record the >>>>>> class >>>>>> your already teaching, and create a possible extra revenue stream w/out >>>>>> participating any more than uploading and labeling your own course >>>>>> syllabus. Lot's of different professors uploading the same courses, the >>>>>> testing standard can include a referral system for testers to provide the >>>>>> OCW professors they have viewed in order to feel confident enough to >>>>>> spend >>>>>> $ to test out of the course. If multiple referrals are provided, revenue >>>>>> can be split between all listed. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example, now if you would like to learn web development. You can >>>>>> go online, learn let's say php. Program a few sites, ask and respond to >>>>>> questions in forums (debugging other people's code while you yourself are >>>>>> waiting on an answer to your ? can help you learn different scenarios >>>>>> faster), then study the php maintainers' guide for their certification >>>>>> exam. Said exam will cost a pretty penny (sliding scale), so students >>>>>> will >>>>>> make sure that they fully grasp the material before they spend their own >>>>>> hard earned $ from working jobs at Carls Jr / Dominos pizza on a $200 - >>>>>> $500 test that they may end up failing. >>>>>> >>>>>> That specific part; "Many professors simply would like to teach as >>>>>> many people as possible", refers directly toward those professors who >>>>>> already provide OCW content. Allow me to pose this question. Would you >>>>>> like >>>>>> to see an America that was not so far behind academically in regard to >>>>>> the >>>>>> rest of the world? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm confident that you, being an elite UCSC educator, would reply Yes >>>>>> to a question framed that way. >>>>>> >>>>>> In that case, wouldn't it be beneficial for the education community >>>>>> as a whole to embrace the system w/ that extra step of student incentive >>>>>> (course or vocation credit) to view all the lecture and course material >>>>>> that is already available. Since if they can and do grasp the material, >>>>>> that allows a disabled / financially challenged / or student w/ >>>>>> extenuating >>>>>> family circumstances to not only learn law / physics / psychology, but >>>>>> they >>>>>> would also have the ability to apply that to their CV. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for your comments on this issue, >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:35 PM, abram stern (aphid) >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Quick rant re: "Many professors simply would like to teach as many >>>>>>> people as possible". I have no interest in teaching "as many students >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> possible", well.. let me rephrase. What's possible for me is about 24. >>>>>>> After that I can't remember their names, the projects they're working >>>>>>> on, >>>>>>> their previous work, their strengths and their weaknesses. And if I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> know those things, I can't speak to them as peers or provide guidance >>>>>>> worth-a-shit on their projects. Some things just don't scale. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can MOOCs replace large lecture classes? ...maybe. Although I know >>>>>>> a lot of young phds starting out in academia who are terrified that >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> curriculum now has to compete with some elder MIT professor's video >>>>>>> channel. Like local radio DJs about to get displaced when Clearchannel >>>>>>> comes to town. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Matt L <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Consider OpenCourseWare credit: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A portal to search for courses from many of these OpenCourseWare >>>>>>>> providers is: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.ocwconsortium.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many universities provide free education online to much of their >>>>>>>> syllabus. Few examples: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm, http://see.stanford.edu/, >>>>>>>> http://ocw.nd.edu/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ability to test out at low cost if candidate qualifies as >>>>>>>> eligible; or unable to attend college , private or otherwise via >>>>>>>> disability, financial, family, or many other situations where Americans >>>>>>>> would not be able to afford or schedule traditional college. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Incentive for students (obvious and many) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Incentive for teachers: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Many professors simply would like to teach as many people as >>>>>>>> possible. This is evident due to the amount of OpenCourseWare >>>>>>>> available >>>>>>>> already today. Also, Mr. Lessig, Aaron's Swartz' legal advisor and >>>>>>>> friend >>>>>>>> mentioned as much in an interview with Chris Hayes. >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> JSTOR: the archive in Mr. Swartz's case, recently opened their >>>>>>>> archive with little to no objection from professors or universities. >>>>>>>> http://about.jstor.org/individuals >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any profit earned by the "low cost", listed above, would be >>>>>>>> paid 100% to the producers of the content aka Teachers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cost mitigation: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Large files, such as lecture videos should embrace tried and >>>>>>>> true peer to peer tech like bittorrent protocols. >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regardless of controversy surrounding the protocol, it is an >>>>>>>> effective way to host very large files for very little bandwidth >>>>>>>> cost, as >>>>>>>> well as in many cases serve your students faster. >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Universities/Corporations can host bittorrent "trackers" that >>>>>>>> do not allow submissions from anyone but authorized users or >>>>>>>> providers. >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That way all files, and intellectual property responsibilities >>>>>>>> would be attached to the owners of the files. And moderators would >>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> have to filter those authorized providers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Problems: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Some universities, and many community colleges profit will be >>>>>>>> affected negatively by such a project. But those universities have >>>>>>>> programs >>>>>>>> like the NCAA, and are/will be an aspiration for most of our >>>>>>>> successful >>>>>>>> students regardless of this alternative option. Those students, >>>>>>>> physically >>>>>>>> attending will have the advantage of hands-on labs in facilities >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> otherwise would never have access to as an online student. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Other Points: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There many commercials on tv for paid college programs where >>>>>>>> students can earn degrees. These programs can't be better than our >>>>>>>> Finest >>>>>>>> Universities? >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Online may be argued as inferior, I wouldn't know, I would be >>>>>>>> interested in a hearing and study regarding efficacy of this type of >>>>>>>> program. But if this type of program would be regarded as inferior, >>>>>>>> degrees >>>>>>>> could reflect the type of education that the (now professionals) >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> received. But I don't see how this would not be considered >>>>>>>> discrimination >>>>>>>> as long as all students had to take the same tests, in the same >>>>>>>> type of >>>>>>>> environment. For example, a student studies a topic online, when >>>>>>>> they and >>>>>>>> the software feel the student is proficient, that student would then >>>>>>>> schedule a test at a local testing center. (Corp? College?) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What is needed: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Long Term >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bandwidth...it's that simple. If the government would provide >>>>>>>> funds for cloud services where needed, the benefits, considering US >>>>>>>> youth >>>>>>>> and society at large, would be exponential over the generations. >>>>>>>> The Beauty >>>>>>>> of cloud services is that if your system is not being used by the >>>>>>>> public, >>>>>>>> it costs Nothing. Code maintenance should be eligible for certain >>>>>>>> grants >>>>>>>> based on successful results, but at the same time, all should >>>>>>>> embrace the >>>>>>>> open source community (I.E. support and upgrades for a possibly >>>>>>>> standard >>>>>>>> CMS to be shared among the different providers). These costs can >>>>>>>> run from >>>>>>>> minimal all the way to free, it just depends on how much traffic >>>>>>>> these >>>>>>>> programs receive. If they're deployed in a clever way, each >>>>>>>> university >>>>>>>> could be mirrored by all the rest. In the case that school A is >>>>>>>> just about >>>>>>>> at it's max bandwidth limit; that would trigger a script to search >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> other mirrors for available bandwidth. It's possible, if done >>>>>>>> correctly, >>>>>>>> that a program like this could be inexpensive Even if popular. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Notes on Obama's speech on Student loans this morning 5/31/2013: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Average student loan: $26,000 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Obama's student loans cost more than his mortgage. While he was >>>>>>>> still paying student loans, he was saving for children's college, yet >>>>>>>> financially better off than most Americans. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> “Every young person should be able to access higher education” is >>>>>>>> an aspiration of our President since he was a Senator, running for the >>>>>>>> White House. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Discuss mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Discuss mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >> FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss >> >> > > > -- > @konklone <http://twitter.com/konklone> | konklone.com | > sunlightfoundation.com | awesomefoundation.org > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.freeculture.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > FAQ: http://wiki.freeculture.org/Fc-discuss > >
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