dear all,

thank you for this discussion and great points! I am part of the
CodeRefinery project and as such super happy to see that there is
interest in reuse of the material!

Our motivation for choosing CC-BY-SA over CC-BY was to maximize the
"return" for the public by "guaranteeing" for derivative work to
remain open and to encourage reuse. But now I see that it can limit
reuse in practice and this would be in conflict with our goals to
maximize sharing and derivative work. I can now see that CC-BY would
probably be better for the CodeRefinery material.

On Monday at the CodeRefinery team meeting I will bring this up. I
don't think that anyone in the CodeRefinery team has strong opinions
against CC-BY and therefore I am confident that we might be able to
change this to simplify reuse. Of course this will be a team decision
and all past authors who have contributed to the material in question
will have to agree to this step - I will inform you about this once I
know more.

best regards,
  radovan


On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 11:49 PM Erin Becker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Thanks Wirawan Purwanto for the questions and Owen Stephens for the detailed 
> response! I don't have anything to add, except to state that everything Owen 
> has said already is correct according to my understanding of our licensing. I 
> completely sympathise with how frustrating it can be to find amazing 
> materials that you're not able to use because of licensing issues. Let's make 
> more CC-BY (or CC-0!) content!
>
> Best,
> Erin
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 8:23 AM Owen Stephens <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> My views inline:
>>
>> On 8 Aug 2019, at 15:47, Purwanto, Wirawan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Can we actually take a piece of CC-BY-SA materials and include it in a 
>> greater work that is licensed by CC-BY?
>>
>> I think https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/ShareAlike_compatibility is 
>> pretty clear on this:
>>
>> "CC BY is one-way compatible with BY-SA. You may adapt a BY work and apply 
>> BY-SA to your contributions, but you may not adapt a BY-SA work and apply BY 
>> to your contributions.”
>>
>> Assuming that perhaps the piece coming from CC-BY-SA will still be under 
>> CC-BY-SA, and not the CC-BY governing the rest of the work. Is this possible?
>>
>> Yes. This page gives some guidance on this 
>> https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/Marking/Creators/Marking_third_party_content
>> Essentially it is possible to state at a granular level that particular 
>> parts of content are licensed separately.
>>
>> However in terms of the Carpentry lessons and how they are published I’m not 
>> sure how easy it would be to manage this. The lessons are currently 
>> structured with a license stated at the level of the whole lesson (by a 
>> LICENSE.md file in the lesson repository). Possibly this could be worked 
>> around by some changes to the LICENSES.md file to indicate there are 
>> materials which are licensed separately. It might take some careful wording 
>> to accurately describe what is covered by the CC-BY license and what is not.
>>
>> In addition the Software Carpentry website states:
>> "All of our lessons are freely available under the Creative Commons - 
>> Attribution License.” (https://software-carpentry.org/lessons/)
>> and
>> "All Software Carpentry instructional material is made available under the 
>> Creative Commons Attribution license." 
>> (https://software-carpentry.org/license/)
>>
>> Including non CC-BY content (even clearly labelled) would go against these 
>> statements in my opinion.
>>
>> It’s also worth considering the downsides of including content with more 
>> restrictive licensing - it would make it more difficult for others to re-use 
>> the Carpentries content because they would need to ensure they checked and 
>> tracked materials licensed under anything other than CC-BY. It could add an 
>> overhead to lesson maintainance.
>>
>>
>> Related to the question above: Has anyone ever worked with other people in 
>> adopting their materials and relicensing under CC-BY? What experience that 
>> you can share? Are people generally willing to accept such a request?
>>
>> I can only speak as someone who has produced and licensed materials under 
>> CC-BY - and my approach is always that I love to see use of the materials I 
>> produce, especially if they are appropriately attributed! I’ve currently 
>> having a discussion about using some material I’ve previously published as 
>> CC-BY in a Library Carpentry lesson - so I can say that at least some 
>> producers are very keen on seeing their work re-used widely.
>>
>> I think it is always worth approaching people and asking - the worst outcome 
>> is that they say they aren’t willing to amend their license.
>>
>>
>> Why I am asking these questions here? Things such as figures, tables, and 
>> code snippets can sometimes hard to come by and if we can leverage what 
>> others have made, all the better, rather than us also spending a lot of time 
>> remaking them just because of incompatible license.
>>
>>
>> I understand this - but I see making such materials available under a CC-BY 
>> license as a positive outcome of work on Carpentries material and well worth 
>> the investment of time. If we can take concepts and illustrate them in a way 
>> that can be more widely re-used that seems like a very good thing.
>>
>> I definitely understand the frustration of finding materials that would be 
>> useful but don’t have compatible licenses - this happens a lot! But 
>> ultimately for me this is about how Carpentries makes materials available in 
>> a way that increases accessibility and use by adopting an Open approach, and 
>> I wouldn’t want to see that change.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>
>
> --
> Erin Becker
> Associate Director with The Carpentries
> Pronouns: she/her/hers
> Schedule a meeting with me: https://calendly.com/ebecker-1
> The Carpentries / discuss / see discussions + participants + delivery options 
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