-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I agree with Justin, the #1 issue, by far, is our lack of decent electrical. It makes the space almost useless for doing any sorta work. I find it easier to go home or to a coffee shop if I need to use my computer.
Ron On 2012-10-12 14:11, Justin Lacko wrote: > Using the space "as it is" is only working for the people who are > currently members that come to the space already. We are slowly losing > members, with one reason surely being the lack of useable space (why > be a member if you can't do what you want to do there?). > > I don't mean what you say. I mean that unless we execute our plans to > do electrical work, we will continue down this path and not bring in > any new members. > > On 12 October 2012 14:09, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > > We've successfully not done electrical renos for over half a year, so it's > > silly to say we can't continue to do so. > > > > What you mean is that it would be wise to do the renos, so we can use the > > space we have. > > > > Sadly, it seems like there is no interest in doing so. I guess we'll just > > have to deal with it. > > > > On Oct 12, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Mark, > >> > >> There's no way we *cannot* do electrical renos. We are suffering > >> because our space is unusable. The idea is that if we do this work we > >> will have a more attractive space and will bring in more users. > >> > >> We must look into how we can operate and do the reno work as well. > >> > >> On 12 October 2012 12:13, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Someone = me :P > >>> Mark, we're having a meeting on Sat at 3PM to discuss budget. Could > >>> you please come? I think your opinions would be helpful to the group. > >>> > >>> On 12 October 2012 12:03, Mark Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> Also the $1k annual deduction may be able to be changed into $100 off > >>>>> our > >>>>> base monthly rent, > >>>>> meaning paying $1400 instead of $1500. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Ah yes, finally somebody outed the rent number that was deemed too > >>>> sensitive > >>>> to discuss in public. Those are of course the floor wide numbers -- we > >>>> should keep our discussion here always in Skullspace terms. ($787.50 a > >>>> month > >>>> + $500 annual credit) > >>>> > >>>> Now I don't have to post a censorsed budget on list and an uncensored one > >>>> next a jelly bean jar (who went and looked at it when it was there?) > >>>> > >>>> Here's a budget with the rent included folks, with some changes: > >>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16487130/skullspace_budget.pdf > >>>> > >>>> I've assumed that the $500 annual credit (our 50% share) isn't going to > >>>> change, so I've penciled it in as $42 a month that we're going to recieve > >>>> and $42 a month in extra common area electricty costs we're going to > >>>> assume. > >>>> > >>>> Here's the big change: I've *cut* the renovations out of this budget > >>>> which > >>>> was previously an initial $1500 down payment plus $369 a month on loan > >>>> payments for 18 month. > >>>> > >>>> I assume under this plan that we just hire an electrician to replace our > >>>> dead light fixtures (~$300?) and otherwise engange in no further > >>>> electrical > >>>> renovations and live with the space as it is until there is a sufficient > >>>> combination of: > >>>> * ear-marked donations > >>>> * grants recieved > >>>> * demonstrated improvment in operational cash flow to service a loan > >>>> > >>>> The prior electrical estimates were on the asusmption of once we had > >>>> improved our electrical -- I assumed with more capacity we'd end up using > >>>> more, especially in the summer with more capacity to put A/C online. Now > >>>> I'm > >>>> assuming that our use will only be $400 a month June-August (down from > >>>> $500 > >>>> in prior post) and $250 in other months (Down from $300) > >>>> > >>>> These cuts allow us to have a $450 a month discretionary budget, which is > >>>> pretty good compared to the zero projected before. > >>>> > >>>> The /Jenkins plan/ was to boost membership revenues after doing the > >>>> electrical renovations so we could afford them and still have a > >>>> discretionary budget. > >>>> > >>>> The /SnikneJ plan/ is to say that current operational revenues (dues, > >>>> fundraising, and junk food) can not be used to fund major renovations and > >>>> are 100% allocated to operating expenses (rent/utils) and discretionary > >>>> spending. > >>>> > >>>> Electrical renovations will need to fund themselves or wait until the > >>>> operational revenues grow enough such that they can be used to fund it. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I'd ready to support /Jenkins/ or /SnikneJ/ . > >>>> > >>>> I'm not currently in favour of what I see as our other three options: > >>>> 1. Accept this lease and do major electrical renovations with a loan and > >>>> end up with no discretionary spending and no wiggle room > >>>> 2. Move somewhere else > >>>> > >>>> Its funny when folks bring up moving somewhere else and they end up > >>>> posting > >>>> a space to illustrate this with a much higher rent in absolute terms. > >>>> (higher cost per square foot but less space is what it's going to have to > >>>> be) > >>>> > >>>> Any other options that folks raise for either illustration or as a > >>>> serrious > >>>> suggestion must be cheaper than $787.50 per month with GST + utils extra > >>>> or > >>>> cheaper than $1330 with utils included. And in all cases > >>>> > >>>> And I'm assuming management fees, property taxes, and landlords insurance > >>>> are included as they are here -- some folks out there advertise their net > >>>> rent, which is the actual amount the landlord ends up with and in reality > >>>> the tennants pay more because a share of the bills for management, > >>>> property > >>>> taxes, and insurance are also passed on top of the "rent". > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> So, here's the four options in my preferred order: > >>>> 1. boost membership revenue (Jenkins plan or other variation) > >>>> 2. cut major electrical renovations (SnikneJ plan) > >>>> 3. move (likely somewhere smaller so rent is smaller in absolute terms) > >>>> 4. eat these new costs and do major electrical renovations funded out of > >>>> operational revenue and live on the edge (suicide plan!) > >>>> > >>>> What's your prefered order folks! Perhaps we can put this to some kind of > >>>> preference voting system? > >>>> > >>>> (unfortunately, no preference voting system exists or will ever exist > >>>> that > >>>> guarantees a particular choice is supported by the majority when there > >>>> are > >>>> more than two choices -- so whichever system we choose could have a bias > >>>> towards particular choices and a majority may be unhappy with the result > >>>> voted in by a minority, but such is a result imposed by math. > >>>> > >>>> See > >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox > >>>> > >>>> and > >>>> > >>>> Joseph Heath > >>>> http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/%7Ejheath/Oldch11.pdf > >>>> """It’s difficult to think of a single social problem that some > >>>> relatively > >>>> large constituency on the left doesn’t think can be solved by “more > >>>> democracy." > >>>> """ > >>>> ) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> As for future bullying, with the six-month clause no longer being at-will > >>>> we'll be a much better position. If they ever tried to change the deal > >>>> on us > >>>> again I'd want to at least ask a lawyer how large a judgement we could > >>>> expect in terms of being compensated for the damages by a lock-out and > >>>> how > >>>> much we'd get in punative damanges. Even after the lawyer takes a big > >>>> share, > >>>> we'd want to see if punative damages could be high enough to leave us in > >>>> a > >>>> great financial position that would make the suffering caused by a > >>>> lock-out > >>>> worthwhile. For sure we'd want to go to court if we knew the punative > >>>> damanges we'd be awared minus legal fees would be enough to have 1/3 the > >>>> cost of a building of our own which is a commercial grade downpayment > >>>> with a > >>>> bank) > >>>> > >>>> I don't see why our landlord would lock us out right now and risk being > >>>> nailed in court because they can just use the 6 month clause to get rid > >>>> of > >>>> us -- so having our day in court is a non-option. > >>>> > >>>> Refusing to sign the proposed lease is equivilent to choosing to move > >>>> option > >>>> (in six months). It seems the landlord would rather loose money on a > >>>> vacancy > >>>> than lose money on this utility bill they originally agreed to cover. > >>>> > >>>> [I would have favoured holding them accountable (in court if needed) for > >>>> thier own communication mistakes and failure to read, grasp, and > >>>> understand > >>>> the lease and management contracts if it weren't for the six month > >>>> at-will > >>>> clause which makes all that moot] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Mark > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlB4b5YACgkQ2t2zxlt4g/Q2WQCgkPywyBHhKRdPs6nD3UCPN/9I cTQAn2UtaOKrIC8WB1t9xUgffP+3qNA5 =nQdz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
