There's some wisdom in Siu's approach; instead of a monthly thing an ad-hoc thing would probably be more successful and require less planning.
On 24 January 2013 16:01, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > I think part of the problem with the old project fund was that $100 wasn't > enough to really do anything. It was nice to receive funding, but only > useful if you were already providing more money personally. > > While I am sad to see a SkSp specific project deemed ineligible for AF > grant money, other projects members were involved with were considered: one > was accepted, and outreach offered to another. But I see no need to > duplicate the AF model to provide funding for SkSp projects: that only > makes sense if there's a clear division between them that do and them that > pay. :) > > Historically, even when we've had money to spare to do stuff, we haven't > had enough active interest to complete projects. I think we're better off > leaving funding as an ad hoc thing, done as people find ideas that interest > them. > On Jan 24, 2013 3:46 PM, "Jim MacKenzie" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I also like rons Skullspace fund idea. >> >> I know I personally would have a few projects to submit. >> >> I'm with Justin in that we need to do something to attract new members, >> but I do think we should wait and see before we start spending money. But >> it's hard to say, it's the kind of decision that requires a lot of >> discussion and thinking. >> On Jan 24, 2013 3:36 PM, "Benjamin Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> To add another voice, I would love to see SkullSpace funds go towards >>> projects and tools that benefit the whole membership, but I know that >>> finding something that pleases the membership as a whole is >>> challenging. To prove this point, just look at how the $100/mo project >>> fund went. From what I could tell, no project got more than 25% of the >>> vote and so the funds just kept being held over to the next month. >>> >>> I like Jay's attitude towards the space's finances: put the money to >>> where it *needs* to go and don't "waste" it on any specific projects. >>> People can take the opportunity to vote with their wallets on the >>> things that they want to see happen at the space. Our member fees are >>> among the lowest in the country, so contributing to a project a few >>> times a year should still see you ahead of those in other provinces, >>> and you won't see your dues going towards subsidizing projects you >>> don't personally have an interest in. >>> >>> Jay (and the rest of the board): thanks for managing things to give us >>> all a creating space where we can get together and make projects >>> happen (like funding a 3d printer in <$8 hours). >>> >>> Justin: thanks for pushing to see interesting things happen, and >>> having SkullSpace as a whole foster that. >>> >>> Ron: I like the SkullSpace foundation idea. I think it hits a nice >>> sweet spot between getting funding for projects and having a strong >>> say in what gets done. Let me know when that starts so I can chip in >>> and make a submission ;) >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > I maybe spoke too soon, but I'm banking on the possibility of being >>> accepted >>> > to a university outside of Winnipeg :P >>> > >>> > >>> > On 24 January 2013 15:20, Aemilianus Kehler <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> You're leaving in September?!?!?! Whaaaa? >>> >> >>> >> Cheers!! >>> >> >>> >> On Jan 24, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> The discussion is not meant to criticise any individual, I was just >>> >> interested in hearing opinions on an alternate way of managing the >>> budget >>> >> and spending. >>> >> >>> >> If I wasn't banking on leaving in September, I would seriously think >>> about >>> >> running for the treasurer position, with the intention of creating a >>> >> committee that could meet to discuss our day-to-day spending policies >>> and >>> >> budget handling. I'll help out where I can until then. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 24 January 2013 15:13, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Unfortunately I won't have the list in front of me until much much >>> >>> later tonight, but I believe we've had six or seven new members since >>> >>> November. >>> >>> >>> >>> Also, I do have to thank you for bringing this up. It's a great >>> >>> subject, especially in light of board elections just around the >>> >>> corner. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Jay, >>> >>> > >>> >>> > For the benefit of this discussion could you tell us how many >>> members >>> >>> > we've >>> >>> > gained since the start of November, when we moved? That would help >>> to >>> >>> > put >>> >>> > things in perspective. >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > On 24 January 2013 15:06, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> One last thing to add: It's is ridiculously early to say our >>> >>> >> membership applications have plateaued. We've only had two >>> meetings >>> >>> >> since Christmas holidays, and we were doing fine attracting >>> interest >>> >>> >> in November and December. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> >>> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >> > Alternate title: "Keynesian economics in the context of a >>> >>> >> > hackerspace" >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > Let's not confuse macroeconomics with microeconomics. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > We're not a stable nation that can indefinitely incur debt to >>> >>> >> > stimulate an economy. We're a hackerspace. Cool toys and >>> equipment >>> >>> >> > are >>> >>> >> > great, but the most important thing for me to invest in is our >>> >>> >> > members. Our members bring in new members, our members engage >>> other >>> >>> >> > members, our members bring in their own cool toys, and our >>> members >>> >>> >> > make each others lives all the more interesting by sharing the >>> same >>> >>> >> > space. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > How do I "invest" in members? >>> >>> >> > How do I keep the budget process as fair to all members as >>> possible? >>> >>> >> > How do I ensure that members are getting what they pay for? >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > By being as strictly and uncompromisingly libertarian as >>> possible. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > Your membership fees are for things that we strictly need to >>> spend >>> >>> >> > money on to keep the space operational, nothing more and nothing >>> >>> >> > less. >>> >>> >> > Nobody will ever feel that their money is being undemocratically >>> >>> >> > wasted because we're only spending it on things that are >>> strictly >>> >>> >> > necessary to keep the facility operational. If members want to >>> buy >>> >>> >> > cool things to make the place better, we encourage them to form >>> >>> >> > teams >>> >>> >> > to fund them. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > But what do I mean by investing in members? >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > We're currently running a deficit but we haven't even considered >>> >>> >> > raising membership dues (although the optional increased >>> donations >>> >>> >> > are >>> >>> >> > great). In fact, lowering our dues to accommodate student >>> members >>> >>> >> > has >>> >>> >> > been the best move for raising membership and income that we've >>> made >>> >>> >> > so far. By not jacking up fees, we can free members to invest >>> their >>> >>> >> > money into the space as they see fit and on their own terms. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > We all work together to build a better space. By being bold and >>> not >>> >>> >> > relying on a central committee to impose high dues and make >>> >>> >> > financial >>> >>> >> > decisions for us, we are all the more free and democratic for >>> it. >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > Mind you, in one months time our new treasurer might come along >>> with >>> >>> >> > a >>> >>> >> > very different philosophy :) >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected] >>> > >>> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> >> >> The "official" policy of SkullSpace currently is that until we >>> >>> >> >> balance >>> >>> >> >> our >>> >>> >> >> budget, we can't spend on anything except the basics - such as >>> rent >>> >>> >> >> and >>> >>> >> >> power. This is a fiscally-conservative policy. I believe we >>> need to >>> >>> >> >> still >>> >>> >> >> have nominal spending while operating at a deficit, for reasons >>> >>> >> >> which I >>> >>> >> >> will >>> >>> >> >> outline below. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> We are currently operating at a deficit. We can pay our bills >>> each >>> >>> >> >> month >>> >>> >> >> without a problem; we have three months of rent in our >>> coffers. But >>> >>> >> >> our >>> >>> >> >> monthly income is less than our expenses. The targeted fix for >>> this >>> >>> >> >> problem >>> >>> >> >> is to increase membership through whatever means available, >>> such as >>> >>> >> >> advertising at conventions. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> When I worked on the plan for SkullSpace 2.0, I knew that we >>> had to >>> >>> >> >> expand >>> >>> >> >> our membership base and ask for more money. Looking back since >>> we >>> >>> >> >> moved >>> >>> >> >> to >>> >>> >> >> the new space at the beginning of December, we certainly have >>> >>> >> >> worked on >>> >>> >> >> this >>> >>> >> >> goal. Lately, it seems membership has again plateaued (I base >>> this >>> >>> >> >> observation on the fact that there haven't been any recent >>> emails >>> >>> >> >> from >>> >>> >> >> Courtney announcing new members). What I want to outline is >>> that we >>> >>> >> >> need to >>> >>> >> >> continue to work on getting more members if we want to >>> eliminate >>> >>> >> >> our >>> >>> >> >> deficit. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> I think that our current fiscally-conservative spending policy >>> is >>> >>> >> >> not >>> >>> >> >> beneficial to the long-term goals of SkullSpace. I believe that >>> >>> >> >> right >>> >>> >> >> now is >>> >>> >> >> the most important time to be investing SkullSpace capital >>> into the >>> >>> >> >> space, >>> >>> >> >> in creative ways that will bring in new members. The constant >>> >>> >> >> reminder >>> >>> >> >> of >>> >>> >> >> "we can't spend a penny until we break even each month" is not >>> >>> >> >> encouraging >>> >>> >> >> and dampens any creative thought for how SkullSpace can grow - >>> >>> >> >> because >>> >>> >> >> sometimes ideas/things need money. I offer the example of our >>> >>> >> >> now-defunct >>> >>> >> >> monthly $100 prize to be awarded to a worthy member-nominated >>> >>> >> >> project. >>> >>> >> >> While >>> >>> >> >> we may not be able to afford $100 monthly now, we could bring >>> it >>> >>> >> >> back >>> >>> >> >> at $50 >>> >>> >> >> each month, or a similar level. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> A basic projection, without knowing exact numbers, is that it >>> will >>> >>> >> >> take >>> >>> >> >> at >>> >>> >> >> least 6 months or more to break even with our income and >>> expenses, >>> >>> >> >> with >>> >>> >> >> the >>> >>> >> >> assumption that membership continues to grow. I don't think >>> that we >>> >>> >> >> should >>> >>> >> >> wait until this time before spending money. While deficit >>> spending >>> >>> >> >> is a >>> >>> >> >> hotly-debated issue, it is beneficial as a means of injecting >>> >>> >> >> stimulus >>> >>> >> >> in >>> >>> >> >> order to continue growth in a stagnant economy. The current >>> >>> >> >> situation >>> >>> >> >> is the >>> >>> >> >> funding of a 3D printer for the space - much of which has >>> >>> >> >> graciously >>> >>> >> >> been >>> >>> >> >> funded by the membership. A 3D printer would arguably bring in >>> more >>> >>> >> >> members, >>> >>> >> >> with the promise of using a novel machine as an added bonus to >>> >>> >> >> their >>> >>> >> >> membership. A $100 donation from SkullSpace hardly seems >>> harmful, >>> >>> >> >> and I >>> >>> >> >> think that we are missing an opportunity to contribute to a >>> really >>> >>> >> >> good >>> >>> >> >> idea. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> I propose that we form a committee to assist with budgetary >>> >>> >> >> decisions, >>> >>> >> >> as >>> >>> >> >> Jay is stepping down at the next election, and make the entire >>> >>> >> >> process >>> >>> >> >> much >>> >>> >> >> more membership-oriented. The job of treasurer for a fledgling >>> >>> >> >> organisation >>> >>> >> >> is one with many duties, and understandably one person can >>> easily >>> >>> >> >> get >>> >>> >> >> burnt >>> >>> >> >> out with it. I would volunteer to sit on this committee. >>> Currently, >>> >>> >> >> our >>> >>> >> >> funding decisions are resting with a single person, which is >>> unfair >>> >>> >> >> and >>> >>> >> >> does >>> >>> >> >> not follow the SkullSpace mantra/rule of members having a say >>> in >>> >>> >> >> the >>> >>> >> >> running >>> >>> >> >> of SkullSpace. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> I think that going-forward, SkullSpace is in a good position >>> right >>> >>> >> >> now >>> >>> >> >> and >>> >>> >> >> we are slowly working towards our goal of breaking even and >>> >>> >> >> eventually >>> >>> >> >> turning a profit. We need to continue to spend where members >>> think >>> >>> >> >> it >>> >>> >> >> is >>> >>> >> >> necessary or else we will surely stagnate. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> Please respond with opinions, criticisms, rebukes, death >>> threats, >>> >>> >> >> etc., >>> >>> >> >> but >>> >>> >> >> I'm hoping to keep this discussion on-topic. >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> ~Justin >>> >>> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> >> >> Help: >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> >> >> Archive: >>> >>> >> >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> >> Help: >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> >> Archive: >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> > Archive: >>> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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