You know what, this money will all come from the members anyway, so why not just create SkullSpace kickstarter? People will propose
ideas, other people will pledge to pay, and after a short period of time a deadline will be passed and the person will get the
money. This way members can support anyone else with a project, and you don't have to worry about someone getting too little funding
to actually do anything, and you don't generally have to worry about proposals getting so old the first people to pitch in aren't
into it anymore.
Though maybe focussing it around a time, like the monthly hackathon, would
improve the turnout.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 4:16 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [SkullSpace-Discuss] Budget and Spending Discussion
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I think by having more structured funding, it encourages people to come
up with project ideas, then implement them. We had some success with the
$100/month idea, eventually, and I think we can improve on it.
The idea is, you encourage people to do projects that they couldn't
otherwise afford, which bring more activity to the space, which makes it
more interesting. I'm a huge fan of that.
We could also investigate going beyond the $100 - depending on how many
people are willing to donate and how much, we could raise it to $200 or
$300 or whatever. That starts to get into the realm of "cool stuff
happens".
One thought I had is to put the money towards buying kits/boards to
teach a course at sksp. That'd be a great use of the money!
I'll put together some ideas of how we can manage it later. There seems
to be some interest, though, which is great!
Ron
On 2013-01-24 16:01, Roswyne wrote:
I think part of the problem with the old project fund was that $100 wasn't
enough to really do anything. It was nice to receive funding, but only
useful if you were already providing more money personally.
While I am sad to see a SkSp specific project deemed ineligible for AF
grant money, other projects members were involved with were considered: one
was accepted, and outreach offered to another. But I see no need to
duplicate the AF model to provide funding for SkSp projects: that only
makes sense if there's a clear division between them that do and them that
pay. :)
Historically, even when we've had money to spare to do stuff, we haven't
had enough active interest to complete projects. I think we're better off
leaving funding as an ad hoc thing, done as people find ideas that interest
them.
On Jan 24, 2013 3:46 PM, "Jim MacKenzie" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I also like rons Skullspace fund idea.
>
> I know I personally would have a few projects to submit.
>
> I'm with Justin in that we need to do something to attract new members,
> but I do think we should wait and see before we start spending money. But
> it's hard to say, it's the kind of decision that requires a lot of
> discussion and thinking.
> On Jan 24, 2013 3:36 PM, "Benjamin Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> To add another voice, I would love to see SkullSpace funds go towards
>> projects and tools that benefit the whole membership, but I know that
>> finding something that pleases the membership as a whole is
>> challenging. To prove this point, just look at how the $100/mo project
>> fund went. From what I could tell, no project got more than 25% of the
>> vote and so the funds just kept being held over to the next month.
>>
>> I like Jay's attitude towards the space's finances: put the money to
>> where it *needs* to go and don't "waste" it on any specific projects.
>> People can take the opportunity to vote with their wallets on the
>> things that they want to see happen at the space. Our member fees are
>> among the lowest in the country, so contributing to a project a few
>> times a year should still see you ahead of those in other provinces,
>> and you won't see your dues going towards subsidizing projects you
>> don't personally have an interest in.
>>
>> Jay (and the rest of the board): thanks for managing things to give us
>> all a creating space where we can get together and make projects
>> happen (like funding a 3d printer in <$8 hours).
>>
>> Justin: thanks for pushing to see interesting things happen, and
>> having SkullSpace as a whole foster that.
>>
>> Ron: I like the SkullSpace foundation idea. I think it hits a nice
>> sweet spot between getting funding for projects and having a strong
>> say in what gets done. Let me know when that starts so I can chip in
>> and make a submission ;)
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > I maybe spoke too soon, but I'm banking on the possibility of being
>> accepted
>> > to a university outside of Winnipeg :P
>> >
>> >
>> > On 24 January 2013 15:20, Aemilianus Kehler <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> You're leaving in September?!?!?! Whaaaa?
>> >>
>> >> Cheers!!
>> >>
>> >> On Jan 24, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The discussion is not meant to criticise any individual, I was just
>> >> interested in hearing opinions on an alternate way of managing the
>> budget
>> >> and spending.
>> >>
>> >> If I wasn't banking on leaving in September, I would seriously think
>> about
>> >> running for the treasurer position, with the intention of creating a
>> >> committee that could meet to discuss our day-to-day spending policies
>> and
>> >> budget handling. I'll help out where I can until then.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 24 January 2013 15:13, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Unfortunately I won't have the list in front of me until much much
>> >>> later tonight, but I believe we've had six or seven new members since
>> >>> November.
>> >>>
>> >>> Also, I do have to thank you for bringing this up. It's a great
>> >>> subject, especially in light of board elections just around the
>> >>> corner.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >>> > Jay,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > For the benefit of this discussion could you tell us how many
>> members
>> >>> > we've
>> >>> > gained since the start of November, when we moved? That would help
>> to
>> >>> > put
>> >>> > things in perspective.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On 24 January 2013 15:06, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> One last thing to add: It's is ridiculously early to say our
>> >>> >> membership applications have plateaued. We've only had two meetings
>> >>> >> since Christmas holidays, and we were doing fine attracting
>> interest
>> >>> >> in November and December.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >> > Alternate title: "Keynesian economics in the context of a
>> >>> >> > hackerspace"
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Let's not confuse macroeconomics with microeconomics.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > We're not a stable nation that can indefinitely incur debt to
>> >>> >> > stimulate an economy. We're a hackerspace. Cool toys and
>> equipment
>> >>> >> > are
>> >>> >> > great, but the most important thing for me to invest in is our
>> >>> >> > members. Our members bring in new members, our members engage
>> other
>> >>> >> > members, our members bring in their own cool toys, and our
>> members
>> >>> >> > make each others lives all the more interesting by sharing the
>> same
>> >>> >> > space.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > How do I "invest" in members?
>> >>> >> > How do I keep the budget process as fair to all members as
>> possible?
>> >>> >> > How do I ensure that members are getting what they pay for?
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > By being as strictly and uncompromisingly libertarian as
>> possible.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Your membership fees are for things that we strictly need to
>> spend
>> >>> >> > money on to keep the space operational, nothing more and nothing
>> >>> >> > less.
>> >>> >> > Nobody will ever feel that their money is being undemocratically
>> >>> >> > wasted because we're only spending it on things that are strictly
>> >>> >> > necessary to keep the facility operational. If members want to
>> buy
>> >>> >> > cool things to make the place better, we encourage them to form
>> >>> >> > teams
>> >>> >> > to fund them.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > But what do I mean by investing in members?
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > We're currently running a deficit but we haven't even considered
>> >>> >> > raising membership dues (although the optional increased
>> donations
>> >>> >> > are
>> >>> >> > great). In fact, lowering our dues to accommodate student members
>> >>> >> > has
>> >>> >> > been the best move for raising membership and income that we've
>> made
>> >>> >> > so far. By not jacking up fees, we can free members to invest
>> their
>> >>> >> > money into the space as they see fit and on their own terms.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > We all work together to build a better space. By being bold and
>> not
>> >>> >> > relying on a central committee to impose high dues and make
>> >>> >> > financial
>> >>> >> > decisions for us, we are all the more free and democratic for it.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > Mind you, in one months time our new treasurer might come along
>> with
>> >>> >> > a
>> >>> >> > very different philosophy :)
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]>
>> >>> >> > wrote:
>> >>> >> >> The "official" policy of SkullSpace currently is that until we
>> >>> >> >> balance
>> >>> >> >> our
>> >>> >> >> budget, we can't spend on anything except the basics - such as
>> rent
>> >>> >> >> and
>> >>> >> >> power. This is a fiscally-conservative policy. I believe we
>> need to
>> >>> >> >> still
>> >>> >> >> have nominal spending while operating at a deficit, for reasons
>> >>> >> >> which I
>> >>> >> >> will
>> >>> >> >> outline below.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> We are currently operating at a deficit. We can pay our bills
>> each
>> >>> >> >> month
>> >>> >> >> without a problem; we have three months of rent in our coffers.
>> But
>> >>> >> >> our
>> >>> >> >> monthly income is less than our expenses. The targeted fix for
>> this
>> >>> >> >> problem
>> >>> >> >> is to increase membership through whatever means available,
>> such as
>> >>> >> >> advertising at conventions.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> When I worked on the plan for SkullSpace 2.0, I knew that we
>> had to
>> >>> >> >> expand
>> >>> >> >> our membership base and ask for more money. Looking back since
>> we
>> >>> >> >> moved
>> >>> >> >> to
>> >>> >> >> the new space at the beginning of December, we certainly have
>> >>> >> >> worked on
>> >>> >> >> this
>> >>> >> >> goal. Lately, it seems membership has again plateaued (I base
>> this
>> >>> >> >> observation on the fact that there haven't been any recent
>> emails
>> >>> >> >> from
>> >>> >> >> Courtney announcing new members). What I want to outline is
>> that we
>> >>> >> >> need to
>> >>> >> >> continue to work on getting more members if we want to eliminate
>> >>> >> >> our
>> >>> >> >> deficit.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> I think that our current fiscally-conservative spending policy
>> is
>> >>> >> >> not
>> >>> >> >> beneficial to the long-term goals of SkullSpace. I believe that
>> >>> >> >> right
>> >>> >> >> now is
>> >>> >> >> the most important time to be investing SkullSpace capital into
>> the
>> >>> >> >> space,
>> >>> >> >> in creative ways that will bring in new members. The constant
>> >>> >> >> reminder
>> >>> >> >> of
>> >>> >> >> "we can't spend a penny until we break even each month" is not
>> >>> >> >> encouraging
>> >>> >> >> and dampens any creative thought for how SkullSpace can grow -
>> >>> >> >> because
>> >>> >> >> sometimes ideas/things need money. I offer the example of our
>> >>> >> >> now-defunct
>> >>> >> >> monthly $100 prize to be awarded to a worthy member-nominated
>> >>> >> >> project.
>> >>> >> >> While
>> >>> >> >> we may not be able to afford $100 monthly now, we could bring it
>> >>> >> >> back
>> >>> >> >> at $50
>> >>> >> >> each month, or a similar level.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> A basic projection, without knowing exact numbers, is that it
>> will
>> >>> >> >> take
>> >>> >> >> at
>> >>> >> >> least 6 months or more to break even with our income and
>> expenses,
>> >>> >> >> with
>> >>> >> >> the
>> >>> >> >> assumption that membership continues to grow. I don't think
>> that we
>> >>> >> >> should
>> >>> >> >> wait until this time before spending money. While deficit
>> spending
>> >>> >> >> is a
>> >>> >> >> hotly-debated issue, it is beneficial as a means of injecting
>> >>> >> >> stimulus
>> >>> >> >> in
>> >>> >> >> order to continue growth in a stagnant economy. The current
>> >>> >> >> situation
>> >>> >> >> is the
>> >>> >> >> funding of a 3D printer for the space - much of which has
>> >>> >> >> graciously
>> >>> >> >> been
>> >>> >> >> funded by the membership. A 3D printer would arguably bring in
>> more
>> >>> >> >> members,
>> >>> >> >> with the promise of using a novel machine as an added bonus to
>> >>> >> >> their
>> >>> >> >> membership. A $100 donation from SkullSpace hardly seems
>> harmful,
>> >>> >> >> and I
>> >>> >> >> think that we are missing an opportunity to contribute to a
>> really
>> >>> >> >> good
>> >>> >> >> idea.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> I propose that we form a committee to assist with budgetary
>> >>> >> >> decisions,
>> >>> >> >> as
>> >>> >> >> Jay is stepping down at the next election, and make the entire
>> >>> >> >> process
>> >>> >> >> much
>> >>> >> >> more membership-oriented. The job of treasurer for a fledgling
>> >>> >> >> organisation
>> >>> >> >> is one with many duties, and understandably one person can
>> easily
>> >>> >> >> get
>> >>> >> >> burnt
>> >>> >> >> out with it. I would volunteer to sit on this committee.
>> Currently,
>> >>> >> >> our
>> >>> >> >> funding decisions are resting with a single person, which is
>> unfair
>> >>> >> >> and
>> >>> >> >> does
>> >>> >> >> not follow the SkullSpace mantra/rule of members having a say in
>> >>> >> >> the
>> >>> >> >> running
>> >>> >> >> of SkullSpace.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> I think that going-forward, SkullSpace is in a good position
>> right
>> >>> >> >> now
>> >>> >> >> and
>> >>> >> >> we are slowly working towards our goal of breaking even and
>> >>> >> >> eventually
>> >>> >> >> turning a profit. We need to continue to spend where members
>> think
>> >>> >> >> it
>> >>> >> >> is
>> >>> >> >> necessary or else we will surely stagnate.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Please respond with opinions, criticisms, rebukes, death
>> threats,
>> >>> >> >> etc.,
>> >>> >> >> but
>> >>> >> >> I'm hoping to keep this discussion on-topic.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> ~Justin
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List
>> >>> >> >> Help:
>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss
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>> >>> >> >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/
>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
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