I also like rons Skullspace fund idea. I know I personally would have a few projects to submit.
I'm with Justin in that we need to do something to attract new members, but I do think we should wait and see before we start spending money. But it's hard to say, it's the kind of decision that requires a lot of discussion and thinking. On Jan 24, 2013 3:36 PM, "Benjamin Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote: > To add another voice, I would love to see SkullSpace funds go towards > projects and tools that benefit the whole membership, but I know that > finding something that pleases the membership as a whole is > challenging. To prove this point, just look at how the $100/mo project > fund went. From what I could tell, no project got more than 25% of the > vote and so the funds just kept being held over to the next month. > > I like Jay's attitude towards the space's finances: put the money to > where it *needs* to go and don't "waste" it on any specific projects. > People can take the opportunity to vote with their wallets on the > things that they want to see happen at the space. Our member fees are > among the lowest in the country, so contributing to a project a few > times a year should still see you ahead of those in other provinces, > and you won't see your dues going towards subsidizing projects you > don't personally have an interest in. > > Jay (and the rest of the board): thanks for managing things to give us > all a creating space where we can get together and make projects > happen (like funding a 3d printer in <$8 hours). > > Justin: thanks for pushing to see interesting things happen, and > having SkullSpace as a whole foster that. > > Ron: I like the SkullSpace foundation idea. I think it hits a nice > sweet spot between getting funding for projects and having a strong > say in what gets done. Let me know when that starts so I can chip in > and make a submission ;) > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: > > I maybe spoke too soon, but I'm banking on the possibility of being > accepted > > to a university outside of Winnipeg :P > > > > > > On 24 January 2013 15:20, Aemilianus Kehler <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> You're leaving in September?!?!?! Whaaaa? > >> > >> Cheers!! > >> > >> On Jan 24, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> The discussion is not meant to criticise any individual, I was just > >> interested in hearing opinions on an alternate way of managing the > budget > >> and spending. > >> > >> If I wasn't banking on leaving in September, I would seriously think > about > >> running for the treasurer position, with the intention of creating a > >> committee that could meet to discuss our day-to-day spending policies > and > >> budget handling. I'll help out where I can until then. > >> > >> > >> On 24 January 2013 15:13, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Unfortunately I won't have the list in front of me until much much > >>> later tonight, but I believe we've had six or seven new members since > >>> November. > >>> > >>> Also, I do have to thank you for bringing this up. It's a great > >>> subject, especially in light of board elections just around the > >>> corner. > >>> > >>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > Jay, > >>> > > >>> > For the benefit of this discussion could you tell us how many members > >>> > we've > >>> > gained since the start of November, when we moved? That would help to > >>> > put > >>> > things in perspective. > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > On 24 January 2013 15:06, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >> One last thing to add: It's is ridiculously early to say our > >>> >> membership applications have plateaued. We've only had two meetings > >>> >> since Christmas holidays, and we were doing fine attracting interest > >>> >> in November and December. > >>> >> > >>> >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > Alternate title: "Keynesian economics in the context of a > >>> >> > hackerspace" > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Let's not confuse macroeconomics with microeconomics. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > We're not a stable nation that can indefinitely incur debt to > >>> >> > stimulate an economy. We're a hackerspace. Cool toys and equipment > >>> >> > are > >>> >> > great, but the most important thing for me to invest in is our > >>> >> > members. Our members bring in new members, our members engage > other > >>> >> > members, our members bring in their own cool toys, and our members > >>> >> > make each others lives all the more interesting by sharing the > same > >>> >> > space. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > How do I "invest" in members? > >>> >> > How do I keep the budget process as fair to all members as > possible? > >>> >> > How do I ensure that members are getting what they pay for? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > By being as strictly and uncompromisingly libertarian as possible. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Your membership fees are for things that we strictly need to spend > >>> >> > money on to keep the space operational, nothing more and nothing > >>> >> > less. > >>> >> > Nobody will ever feel that their money is being undemocratically > >>> >> > wasted because we're only spending it on things that are strictly > >>> >> > necessary to keep the facility operational. If members want to buy > >>> >> > cool things to make the place better, we encourage them to form > >>> >> > teams > >>> >> > to fund them. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > But what do I mean by investing in members? > >>> >> > > >>> >> > We're currently running a deficit but we haven't even considered > >>> >> > raising membership dues (although the optional increased donations > >>> >> > are > >>> >> > great). In fact, lowering our dues to accommodate student members > >>> >> > has > >>> >> > been the best move for raising membership and income that we've > made > >>> >> > so far. By not jacking up fees, we can free members to invest > their > >>> >> > money into the space as they see fit and on their own terms. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > We all work together to build a better space. By being bold and > not > >>> >> > relying on a central committee to impose high dues and make > >>> >> > financial > >>> >> > decisions for us, we are all the more free and democratic for it. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > Mind you, in one months time our new treasurer might come along > with > >>> >> > a > >>> >> > very different philosophy :) > >>> >> > > >>> >> > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> > >>> >> > wrote: > >>> >> >> The "official" policy of SkullSpace currently is that until we > >>> >> >> balance > >>> >> >> our > >>> >> >> budget, we can't spend on anything except the basics - such as > rent > >>> >> >> and > >>> >> >> power. This is a fiscally-conservative policy. I believe we need > to > >>> >> >> still > >>> >> >> have nominal spending while operating at a deficit, for reasons > >>> >> >> which I > >>> >> >> will > >>> >> >> outline below. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> We are currently operating at a deficit. We can pay our bills > each > >>> >> >> month > >>> >> >> without a problem; we have three months of rent in our coffers. > But > >>> >> >> our > >>> >> >> monthly income is less than our expenses. The targeted fix for > this > >>> >> >> problem > >>> >> >> is to increase membership through whatever means available, such > as > >>> >> >> advertising at conventions. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> When I worked on the plan for SkullSpace 2.0, I knew that we had > to > >>> >> >> expand > >>> >> >> our membership base and ask for more money. Looking back since we > >>> >> >> moved > >>> >> >> to > >>> >> >> the new space at the beginning of December, we certainly have > >>> >> >> worked on > >>> >> >> this > >>> >> >> goal. Lately, it seems membership has again plateaued (I base > this > >>> >> >> observation on the fact that there haven't been any recent emails > >>> >> >> from > >>> >> >> Courtney announcing new members). What I want to outline is that > we > >>> >> >> need to > >>> >> >> continue to work on getting more members if we want to eliminate > >>> >> >> our > >>> >> >> deficit. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I think that our current fiscally-conservative spending policy is > >>> >> >> not > >>> >> >> beneficial to the long-term goals of SkullSpace. I believe that > >>> >> >> right > >>> >> >> now is > >>> >> >> the most important time to be investing SkullSpace capital into > the > >>> >> >> space, > >>> >> >> in creative ways that will bring in new members. The constant > >>> >> >> reminder > >>> >> >> of > >>> >> >> "we can't spend a penny until we break even each month" is not > >>> >> >> encouraging > >>> >> >> and dampens any creative thought for how SkullSpace can grow - > >>> >> >> because > >>> >> >> sometimes ideas/things need money. I offer the example of our > >>> >> >> now-defunct > >>> >> >> monthly $100 prize to be awarded to a worthy member-nominated > >>> >> >> project. > >>> >> >> While > >>> >> >> we may not be able to afford $100 monthly now, we could bring it > >>> >> >> back > >>> >> >> at $50 > >>> >> >> each month, or a similar level. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> A basic projection, without knowing exact numbers, is that it > will > >>> >> >> take > >>> >> >> at > >>> >> >> least 6 months or more to break even with our income and > expenses, > >>> >> >> with > >>> >> >> the > >>> >> >> assumption that membership continues to grow. I don't think that > we > >>> >> >> should > >>> >> >> wait until this time before spending money. While deficit > spending > >>> >> >> is a > >>> >> >> hotly-debated issue, it is beneficial as a means of injecting > >>> >> >> stimulus > >>> >> >> in > >>> >> >> order to continue growth in a stagnant economy. The current > >>> >> >> situation > >>> >> >> is the > >>> >> >> funding of a 3D printer for the space - much of which has > >>> >> >> graciously > >>> >> >> been > >>> >> >> funded by the membership. A 3D printer would arguably bring in > more > >>> >> >> members, > >>> >> >> with the promise of using a novel machine as an added bonus to > >>> >> >> their > >>> >> >> membership. A $100 donation from SkullSpace hardly seems harmful, > >>> >> >> and I > >>> >> >> think that we are missing an opportunity to contribute to a > really > >>> >> >> good > >>> >> >> idea. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I propose that we form a committee to assist with budgetary > >>> >> >> decisions, > >>> >> >> as > >>> >> >> Jay is stepping down at the next election, and make the entire > >>> >> >> process > >>> >> >> much > >>> >> >> more membership-oriented. The job of treasurer for a fledgling > >>> >> >> organisation > >>> >> >> is one with many duties, and understandably one person can easily > >>> >> >> get > >>> >> >> burnt > >>> >> >> out with it. I would volunteer to sit on this committee. > Currently, > >>> >> >> our > >>> >> >> funding decisions are resting with a single person, which is > unfair > >>> >> >> and > >>> >> >> does > >>> >> >> not follow the SkullSpace mantra/rule of members having a say in > >>> >> >> the > >>> >> >> running > >>> >> >> of SkullSpace. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> I think that going-forward, SkullSpace is in a good position > right > >>> >> >> now > >>> >> >> and > >>> >> >> we are slowly working towards our goal of breaking even and > >>> >> >> eventually > >>> >> >> turning a profit. We need to continue to spend where members > think > >>> >> >> it > >>> >> >> is > >>> >> >> necessary or else we will surely stagnate. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Please respond with opinions, criticisms, rebukes, death threats, > >>> >> >> etc., > >>> >> >> but > >>> >> >> I'm hoping to keep this discussion on-topic. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> ~Justin > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> >> >> Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> >> >> Archive: > >>> >> >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> >> Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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