I think part of the problem with the old project fund was that $100 wasn't enough to really do anything. It was nice to receive funding, but only useful if you were already providing more money personally.
While I am sad to see a SkSp specific project deemed ineligible for AF grant money, other projects members were involved with were considered: one was accepted, and outreach offered to another. But I see no need to duplicate the AF model to provide funding for SkSp projects: that only makes sense if there's a clear division between them that do and them that pay. :) Historically, even when we've had money to spare to do stuff, we haven't had enough active interest to complete projects. I think we're better off leaving funding as an ad hoc thing, done as people find ideas that interest them. On Jan 24, 2013 3:46 PM, "Jim MacKenzie" <[email protected]> wrote: > I also like rons Skullspace fund idea. > > I know I personally would have a few projects to submit. > > I'm with Justin in that we need to do something to attract new members, > but I do think we should wait and see before we start spending money. But > it's hard to say, it's the kind of decision that requires a lot of > discussion and thinking. > On Jan 24, 2013 3:36 PM, "Benjamin Bergman" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> To add another voice, I would love to see SkullSpace funds go towards >> projects and tools that benefit the whole membership, but I know that >> finding something that pleases the membership as a whole is >> challenging. To prove this point, just look at how the $100/mo project >> fund went. From what I could tell, no project got more than 25% of the >> vote and so the funds just kept being held over to the next month. >> >> I like Jay's attitude towards the space's finances: put the money to >> where it *needs* to go and don't "waste" it on any specific projects. >> People can take the opportunity to vote with their wallets on the >> things that they want to see happen at the space. Our member fees are >> among the lowest in the country, so contributing to a project a few >> times a year should still see you ahead of those in other provinces, >> and you won't see your dues going towards subsidizing projects you >> don't personally have an interest in. >> >> Jay (and the rest of the board): thanks for managing things to give us >> all a creating space where we can get together and make projects >> happen (like funding a 3d printer in <$8 hours). >> >> Justin: thanks for pushing to see interesting things happen, and >> having SkullSpace as a whole foster that. >> >> Ron: I like the SkullSpace foundation idea. I think it hits a nice >> sweet spot between getting funding for projects and having a strong >> say in what gets done. Let me know when that starts so I can chip in >> and make a submission ;) >> >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:25 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I maybe spoke too soon, but I'm banking on the possibility of being >> accepted >> > to a university outside of Winnipeg :P >> > >> > >> > On 24 January 2013 15:20, Aemilianus Kehler <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> You're leaving in September?!?!?! Whaaaa? >> >> >> >> Cheers!! >> >> >> >> On Jan 24, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> The discussion is not meant to criticise any individual, I was just >> >> interested in hearing opinions on an alternate way of managing the >> budget >> >> and spending. >> >> >> >> If I wasn't banking on leaving in September, I would seriously think >> about >> >> running for the treasurer position, with the intention of creating a >> >> committee that could meet to discuss our day-to-day spending policies >> and >> >> budget handling. I'll help out where I can until then. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 24 January 2013 15:13, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Unfortunately I won't have the list in front of me until much much >> >>> later tonight, but I believe we've had six or seven new members since >> >>> November. >> >>> >> >>> Also, I do have to thank you for bringing this up. It's a great >> >>> subject, especially in light of board elections just around the >> >>> corner. >> >>> >> >>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> > Jay, >> >>> > >> >>> > For the benefit of this discussion could you tell us how many >> members >> >>> > we've >> >>> > gained since the start of November, when we moved? That would help >> to >> >>> > put >> >>> > things in perspective. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > On 24 January 2013 15:06, Jay Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> One last thing to add: It's is ridiculously early to say our >> >>> >> membership applications have plateaued. We've only had two meetings >> >>> >> since Christmas holidays, and we were doing fine attracting >> interest >> >>> >> in November and December. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Jay Smith <[email protected]> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > Alternate title: "Keynesian economics in the context of a >> >>> >> > hackerspace" >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Let's not confuse macroeconomics with microeconomics. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > We're not a stable nation that can indefinitely incur debt to >> >>> >> > stimulate an economy. We're a hackerspace. Cool toys and >> equipment >> >>> >> > are >> >>> >> > great, but the most important thing for me to invest in is our >> >>> >> > members. Our members bring in new members, our members engage >> other >> >>> >> > members, our members bring in their own cool toys, and our >> members >> >>> >> > make each others lives all the more interesting by sharing the >> same >> >>> >> > space. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > How do I "invest" in members? >> >>> >> > How do I keep the budget process as fair to all members as >> possible? >> >>> >> > How do I ensure that members are getting what they pay for? >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > By being as strictly and uncompromisingly libertarian as >> possible. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Your membership fees are for things that we strictly need to >> spend >> >>> >> > money on to keep the space operational, nothing more and nothing >> >>> >> > less. >> >>> >> > Nobody will ever feel that their money is being undemocratically >> >>> >> > wasted because we're only spending it on things that are strictly >> >>> >> > necessary to keep the facility operational. If members want to >> buy >> >>> >> > cool things to make the place better, we encourage them to form >> >>> >> > teams >> >>> >> > to fund them. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > But what do I mean by investing in members? >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > We're currently running a deficit but we haven't even considered >> >>> >> > raising membership dues (although the optional increased >> donations >> >>> >> > are >> >>> >> > great). In fact, lowering our dues to accommodate student members >> >>> >> > has >> >>> >> > been the best move for raising membership and income that we've >> made >> >>> >> > so far. By not jacking up fees, we can free members to invest >> their >> >>> >> > money into the space as they see fit and on their own terms. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > We all work together to build a better space. By being bold and >> not >> >>> >> > relying on a central committee to impose high dues and make >> >>> >> > financial >> >>> >> > decisions for us, we are all the more free and democratic for it. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Mind you, in one months time our new treasurer might come along >> with >> >>> >> > a >> >>> >> > very different philosophy :) >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Justin Lacko <[email protected]> >> >>> >> > wrote: >> >>> >> >> The "official" policy of SkullSpace currently is that until we >> >>> >> >> balance >> >>> >> >> our >> >>> >> >> budget, we can't spend on anything except the basics - such as >> rent >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> power. This is a fiscally-conservative policy. I believe we >> need to >> >>> >> >> still >> >>> >> >> have nominal spending while operating at a deficit, for reasons >> >>> >> >> which I >> >>> >> >> will >> >>> >> >> outline below. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> We are currently operating at a deficit. We can pay our bills >> each >> >>> >> >> month >> >>> >> >> without a problem; we have three months of rent in our coffers. >> But >> >>> >> >> our >> >>> >> >> monthly income is less than our expenses. The targeted fix for >> this >> >>> >> >> problem >> >>> >> >> is to increase membership through whatever means available, >> such as >> >>> >> >> advertising at conventions. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> When I worked on the plan for SkullSpace 2.0, I knew that we >> had to >> >>> >> >> expand >> >>> >> >> our membership base and ask for more money. Looking back since >> we >> >>> >> >> moved >> >>> >> >> to >> >>> >> >> the new space at the beginning of December, we certainly have >> >>> >> >> worked on >> >>> >> >> this >> >>> >> >> goal. Lately, it seems membership has again plateaued (I base >> this >> >>> >> >> observation on the fact that there haven't been any recent >> emails >> >>> >> >> from >> >>> >> >> Courtney announcing new members). What I want to outline is >> that we >> >>> >> >> need to >> >>> >> >> continue to work on getting more members if we want to eliminate >> >>> >> >> our >> >>> >> >> deficit. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I think that our current fiscally-conservative spending policy >> is >> >>> >> >> not >> >>> >> >> beneficial to the long-term goals of SkullSpace. I believe that >> >>> >> >> right >> >>> >> >> now is >> >>> >> >> the most important time to be investing SkullSpace capital into >> the >> >>> >> >> space, >> >>> >> >> in creative ways that will bring in new members. The constant >> >>> >> >> reminder >> >>> >> >> of >> >>> >> >> "we can't spend a penny until we break even each month" is not >> >>> >> >> encouraging >> >>> >> >> and dampens any creative thought for how SkullSpace can grow - >> >>> >> >> because >> >>> >> >> sometimes ideas/things need money. I offer the example of our >> >>> >> >> now-defunct >> >>> >> >> monthly $100 prize to be awarded to a worthy member-nominated >> >>> >> >> project. >> >>> >> >> While >> >>> >> >> we may not be able to afford $100 monthly now, we could bring it >> >>> >> >> back >> >>> >> >> at $50 >> >>> >> >> each month, or a similar level. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> A basic projection, without knowing exact numbers, is that it >> will >> >>> >> >> take >> >>> >> >> at >> >>> >> >> least 6 months or more to break even with our income and >> expenses, >> >>> >> >> with >> >>> >> >> the >> >>> >> >> assumption that membership continues to grow. I don't think >> that we >> >>> >> >> should >> >>> >> >> wait until this time before spending money. While deficit >> spending >> >>> >> >> is a >> >>> >> >> hotly-debated issue, it is beneficial as a means of injecting >> >>> >> >> stimulus >> >>> >> >> in >> >>> >> >> order to continue growth in a stagnant economy. The current >> >>> >> >> situation >> >>> >> >> is the >> >>> >> >> funding of a 3D printer for the space - much of which has >> >>> >> >> graciously >> >>> >> >> been >> >>> >> >> funded by the membership. A 3D printer would arguably bring in >> more >> >>> >> >> members, >> >>> >> >> with the promise of using a novel machine as an added bonus to >> >>> >> >> their >> >>> >> >> membership. A $100 donation from SkullSpace hardly seems >> harmful, >> >>> >> >> and I >> >>> >> >> think that we are missing an opportunity to contribute to a >> really >> >>> >> >> good >> >>> >> >> idea. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I propose that we form a committee to assist with budgetary >> >>> >> >> decisions, >> >>> >> >> as >> >>> >> >> Jay is stepping down at the next election, and make the entire >> >>> >> >> process >> >>> >> >> much >> >>> >> >> more membership-oriented. The job of treasurer for a fledgling >> >>> >> >> organisation >> >>> >> >> is one with many duties, and understandably one person can >> easily >> >>> >> >> get >> >>> >> >> burnt >> >>> >> >> out with it. I would volunteer to sit on this committee. >> Currently, >> >>> >> >> our >> >>> >> >> funding decisions are resting with a single person, which is >> unfair >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> does >> >>> >> >> not follow the SkullSpace mantra/rule of members having a say in >> >>> >> >> the >> >>> >> >> running >> >>> >> >> of SkullSpace. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> I think that going-forward, SkullSpace is in a good position >> right >> >>> >> >> now >> >>> >> >> and >> >>> >> >> we are slowly working towards our goal of breaking even and >> >>> >> >> eventually >> >>> >> >> turning a profit. We need to continue to spend where members >> think >> >>> >> >> it >> >>> >> >> is >> >>> >> >> necessary or else we will surely stagnate. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Please respond with opinions, criticisms, rebukes, death >> threats, >> >>> >> >> etc., >> >>> >> >> but >> >>> >> >> I'm hoping to keep this discussion on-topic. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> ~Justin >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>> >> >> Help: >> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>> >> >> Archive: >> >>> >> >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>> >> Archive: >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>> > Archive: >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >>> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >>> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> _______________________________________________ >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List >> Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss >> Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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