Personally, I don't have any issues with how the toilet issue was resolved. Plunger found, toilet fixed, done.
What I do want to see is a strong stand against the nagging and shaming bullshit that seems to follow "incidents" like this. Often by a member who has done nothing to actually resolve the problem itself. It's not excellent and has driven members out of the organisation. Can we put some anti-nagging and anti-shaming sentiment to policy, in the hopes that we can put a stop to or remove the offending members instead? On 2013-05-06 12:31 PM, "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote: > Use best judgement when you can, but this toilet thing was *way* > overblown and I had a lot of annoyed people asking me why they were > involved with it. > > If it's something that can't be immediately resolved, pass it to admin > then drop it. One of us will sort it out. > > Ron > > On 2013-05-06 11:58, Roswyne wrote: > > That'll work great as long as the issue can be resolved promptly (within > an > > hour or so). > > > > The longer it's expected to take, the more important notifying the > general > > membership becomes. > > > > I.E. plunger will not arrive till the morning, so toilets will be out of > > service till then. > > On May 6, 2013 10:51 AM, "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yup, that would work! The point is to not involve a whole bunch of > > > individuals and make a big deal out of something that's not really a > big > > > deal. If you can resolve it yourself, get it done. If you can't, > contact > > > admin. Done. > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > On 2013-05-06 10:46, Justin Lacko wrote: > > > > I think that's getting way too inclusive and tedious... look. Example > > > > problem: > > > > > > > > 1. I get to SkSp, oh noes, toilet is clogged and there is no > plunger~! > > > > 2. I shut off the valve behind the toilet and check first if anyone > knows > > > > how to fix. I determine I need a plunger. > > > > 3. I email admin@, cc discuss@ to say the toilet is clogged and I > don't > > > > have a plunger and wondering if anyone can help? > > > > 4. Nobody responds/is able to help, so because I have no money I ask > > > > admin@if I can use donation box money to buy a plunger. They say > yes. > > > > I go do > > > > that. Or, I go buy it myself and skip asking admin@. > > > > 5. I/Someone fixes the problem and then I email admin@, cc discuss@and > > > say > > > > the problem has been fixed. > > > > > > > > Boom, done, next! > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 May 2013 10:40, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Cool. > > > > > > > > > > To avoid duplicate reports from members, it might also be helpful > (and > > > > > reassuring) if admin posts something to discuss indicating they are > > > aware > > > > > of the problem and are actively handling it. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, considering that discuss is an opt-in list, perhaps that > > > should > > > > > go to announce or members. > > > > > On May 6, 2013 10:34 AM, "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> For a plunger, contact admin@ first. Waiting till morning isn't > a big > > > > >> deal, and the reason it took awhile is because it was late and > stores > > > > >> were closed. > > > > >> > > > > >> If something is leaking or on fire or going to explode, take money > > > from > > > > >> the box. If it can wait a few hours or till the morning, please > > > contact > > > > >> us. Like Justin said, Ian's pretty good at getting the cheques > out. > > > > >> > > > > >> Ron > > > > >> > > > > >> On 2013-05-06 10:24, Roswyne wrote: > > > > >> > Actually I think that was a factor this time, and was (part of) > why > > > it > > > > >> took > > > > >> > so long to get a plunger.... > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Not everyone makes what you do, or has a credit card. ;) > > > > >> > On May 6, 2013 10:21 AM, "Justin Lacko" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > I don't think anyone except admin@ has the authoritah to pull > > > funds > > > > >> from > > > > >> > > the donation box until directed to do so. I haven't yet seen > an > > > > >> emergency > > > > >> > > situation where we need "parts" immediately and there was > nobody > > > that > > > > >> could > > > > >> > > temporarily cover it. SkSp is pretty good with getting > cheques to > > > > >> people. > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > On 6 May 2013 10:18, Roswyne <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > >> One thing that could be a factor in resolving an issue is > money. > > > If > > > > >> parts > > > > >> > >> are required, whoever's on site may not have cash on hand (or > > > > >> > >> transportation) to get them. > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> Is that a "bump to admin" thing, or could the donation bin be > > > used to > > > > >> > >> cover the cost? (if so, should admin approval be needed?) > > > > >> > >> On May 6, 2013 9:35 AM, "Ron" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >>> Hey all, > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> If last week's "toilet incident" has told me anything, it's > > > that we > > > > >> > >>> don't know how to handle issues properly as a group without > > > driving > > > > >> each > > > > >> > >>> other nuts or shaming each other, so let me propose a more > > > formal > > > > >> > >>> process. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> I posted mostly this text to the following wiki page, please > > > edit > > > > >> if you > > > > >> > >>> disagree or can think of a better way to handle something: > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Incident_handling > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> Also, I realize this is a little long, but I think it's > > > important to > > > > >> > >>> read... > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> == > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> If you notice a problem at the space that needs speedy > > > resolution > > > > >> (like > > > > >> > >>> plugged toilets), you have ownership of the problem until > you > > > pass > > > > >> it on > > > > >> > >>> to somebody else (don't worry, it's easy!) - here's what to > do: > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> 1. If you can fix the problem yourself, there's somebody > around > > > who > > > > >> can > > > > >> > >>> fix it, or you know the "right" person to contact, let them > know > > > > >> > >>> directly and they can choose to take ownership (please email > > > admin@when > > > > >> > >>> it's resolved so we know what's going on). > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> 2. If you can't fix the problem yourself or you don't know > who > > > to > > > > >> ask or > > > > >> > >>> the 'right' person is unable/unwilling to take ownership, > and > > > it's a > > > > >> > >>> problem that another member might be able to help with, > email > > > > >> discuss@. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> If you are on discuss@ and you can't help, please don't > reply; > > > only > > > > >> > >>> reply if you can actually make a difference (we don't need > extra > > > > >> > >>> noise/chatter). Replying = taking ownership (though you can > > > pass it > > > > >> off > > > > >> > >>> to admin@ any time). > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> 3. If it's something discuss@ can't resolve (eg, an issue > with > > > the > > > > >> > >>> landlord or a legal issue), or discuss@ doesn't resolve it > in a > > > > >> > >>> reasonable amount of time ("reasonable" depends on the > problem, > > > > >> > >>> obviously), escalate to admin@. Somebody on admin@ will > take > > > > >> ownership > > > > >> > >>> and make sure it gets done. Once you've done that, please > drop > > > it. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> Please don't act on behalf of admin@ if it's something > > > serious, or > > > > >> > >>> especially if it's something that threatens our safety > (either > > > > >> > >>> physically or as an organization). Escalate to admin@. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> 3a. If it's a network issue, and email is still available, > email > > > > >> > >>> netops@. If it's a network issue and email is *not* > available, > > > > >> please > > > > >> > >>> contact Colin Stanners, Mak, or myself. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> 4. Once it's resolved, if admin@ wasn't involved, please > let > > > admin@know > > > > >> > >>> it happened, and how it was fixed. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> The things we *don't* need are: > > > > >> > >>> - An avalanche of emails and/or text messages to a variety > of > > > > >> different > > > > >> > >>> people > > > > >> > >>> - Confusion about who owns an issue > > > > >> > >>> - ie, an abundance of people contacted to help, none of > whom > > > know > > > > >> who > > > > >> > >>> else is involved or WTF is going on > > > > >> > >>> - Shaming - either public or private, and either before or > after > > > > >> > >>> - Massive overreactions > > > > >> > >>> - Please don't email individual board members unless > there's a > > > very > > > > >> good > > > > >> > >>> reason - just email admin@ so we can take care of it as > > > needed, > > > > >> that's > > > > >> > >>> why we're here! > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> ^ All of which happened, for some insane reason, during the > > > "toilet > > > > >> > >>> incident". Seriously people, that was not a complicated > problem, > > > > >> and it > > > > >> > >>> was easily resolved. We don't need any of that shit. Just > > > contact > > > > >> the > > > > >> > >>> right people and let the problem work itself out. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> TL;DR: If you notice a problem, you own it. If you think > it'll > > > help, > > > > >> > >>> alert discuss@ - where somebody else can take ownership if > > > they're > > > > >> able > > > > >> > >>> to - or admin@ - where somebody definitely will. Once > somebody > > > else > > > > >> > >>> takes ownership, drop it. Whenever it gets resolved, the > > > current > > > > >> owner > > > > >> > >>> should email admin@ with what happened and how it was > fixed. > > > > >> Unless it's > > > > >> > >>> a plugged toilet, in which case, who the hell cares? Just > deal > > > with > > > > >> it. > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> Hope that clears things up! Edit the wiki page if you think > you > > > can > > > > >> do > > > > >> > >>> something better! > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >>> Ron > > > > >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > >>> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >> > >>> Help: > > > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >> > >>> Archive: > > > > >> https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >> > >>> > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >> > >> Help: > > > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >> > >> Archive: > > > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >> > > Help: > > > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >> > > Archive: > > > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > >> > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >> > Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >> > Archive: > > > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > >> Help: > http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > >> Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > > Archive: > https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ > > _______________________________________________ > SkullSpace Discuss Mailing List > Help: http://www.skullspace.ca/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List#Discuss > Archive: https://groups.google.com/group/skullspace-discuss-archive/ >
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