snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> Because, as I said last week: I use ALBUMARTIST for ALBUMARTIST. (Well,
> Musicbrainz tags which are converted)
ok, and thats great for you.
but SC7 does not require people use MB to get SC7 to work for them.
nor should it.
i don't want to use anything like that b/c i don't think i need it.
rather, i think SC7 is either not employing the option correctly, or
needs to create a second option for TPE2 people similar to me, which
are not in short supply.
thats why the thread is called by the OP "can we please have a sort by
album artist option." note the space. note the no caps.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> No workaround: I have never used TPE2 for ALBUMARTIST.
right, but you have used MB, and that is a workaround.
how else are people like me to populate ALBUMARTIST?
and btw, if you do that, and sort by that, what do you display by? in
other words, do you list albums by band, or by the other choice in that
option?
if by band, does that not create a conflict? meaning if your values
aren't equal, doesn't it display one thing and sort somewhere else?
if you use the other option, don't you get lots of artists displayed
for VA albums with lots of artist? don't you mind that? and do you
want that album displayed multiple times? just curious.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> As I pointed out it works fine and dandy for me. But, then, I don't use
> TPE2 for ALBUMARTIST.
obviously, you can't. no one can without changing the code.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> No, it does not stand. It only stands for people who have used software
> that lies to them and tells them they are setting the 'album artist' tag
> when they are setting the BAND tag. Then they do not understand why the
> two are different.
did you mean to say BAND? [ie. the SC7 internal tag?] or band?
i agree that TPE2 is not officially album artist. but i also think it
doesn't matter. first off, it does set the TPE2 tag regardless.
secondly, it is a defacto standard for the majority. you can argue
that point, but that is the reality.
thirdly, it doesn't matter since the SC7 option makes it clear that
band or album artist will affect TPE2 and therefore be good enough to
work the SC7 option.
fourthly, TPE2 (via album artist in winamp) does in fact set the
internal SC7 BAND tag, but does not set the internal SC7 ALBUMARTIST
tag.
in any case...
the point does stand. if you are part of the mp3 population, you are
affected by how SC7 handles TPE2 info, regardless of whether you know
about it or not.
i would argue that how slim handled TPE2 info could explain why you use
MB to set your tags.
i also would argue that if it handled them differently it could affect
you, yes? thus why you don't want it to sort by TPE2 in all
situations. so the opposite is also true, how it does NOT sort by TPE2
then must affect you.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> It does not affect me any more than, "you can't put random crap in the
> TPE1 field! why not?" forces me to tag artists correctly.
you can see why it does from what i just wrote.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> No, again, it is not a 'workaround'. The 'workaround' is "omg, id3v2
> doesn't include an album artist tag, well, what the hell, let's shove
> it in TPE2 cause no one uses that!"
i agree that this is unfortunate, but this is a convention of many many
programs and SC7 has to bend to such conventions.
its not a perfect world, and all i am asking for is an option to
accommodate imperfection. its not like i am alone in his, many people
are totally unaware that TPE2 should not be use in this way.
but without going to a workaround solution like MB, there is no option
for casual users, and so TPE2 fits the bill. this happened WAY before
i even got into digital music, so blame the populace. but it is what
it is, and SC7 should del with it as is, and not punish its users for
what is beyond their control.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> I give up. The INTENDED use of the TPE2 field, according to id3.org:
> TPE2
> The 'Band/Orchestra/Accompaniment' frame is used for additional
> information about the performers in the recording.
>
> It does NOT say, "oh, yeah, and you can toss the album artist in here,
> too"
>
> Your definition of 'intended use' is actually, "other software uses it
> this way, so that must be what it was meant for". That goes counter to
> the meaning of the word 'intended'.
>
> I did not "find another use"... Winamp did.
and i TOTALLY agree with you... but it is what it is, isn't it?
i mean kudos for using TPE2 as per the actual offical definition, i
sincerely applaud that. and kudos again for using MB as a workaround
to get ALBUMARTIST values. nicely done.
but slim is not you, they are selling a product to the masses, and this
is the convention thats out there, however flawed and stupid, and i
believe instead of trying to fight the tide, slim should accommodate
via an option.
that option should be to sort via TPE2 if one chooses, and they can
word it in whatever manner practical.
but right now, a lot of folks are screwed by how slim works, and i for
one refuse to retag everything and add tags and all that jazz when all
i need is for slim to acknowledge reality and deal with this properly.
and i'm hardly alone in that view.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> My point is that you twist words like "intended" around to mean not
> "what the intentions of the creator were", but "what other people have
> done with it". You ignore standards and other people following those
> standards and insist that they are 'workarounds' because you and your
> software do not follow those standards, so everyone else must be wrong.
not at all.
i am serious when i say i applaud your correct usage.
but you are in fact using a workaround to set ALBUMARTIST.
and all i am saying is that AN OPTION should exist for the VAST
MAJORITY out there slim wants to sell a product to.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> I do not know if this is deliberate or not. I strongly suspect it is
> deliberate: the twisting of the word 'intended' pushed me over the edge
> on that.
i think you neeed to relax, big time.
i was wrong to assume you were using the TPE2 field incorrectly. i
apologize.
but get off your prosecutors chair, i meant nothing malacious, i merely
want these issues resolved to EVERYONES contentment.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> Intended \In*tend"ed\, a.
> 1. Made tense; stretched out; extended; forcible; violent.
> [Obs.] --Spenser.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> 2. Purposed; designed; as, intended harm or help.
> [1913 Webster]
>
> For most of us, the first definition is, as marked, obsolete. But you
> seem to be using the word in that way. "Winamp intended the TPE2 field
> to be Album Artist"... They stretched it and forcibly shoved other
> data into a field they should not have.
i don't know what you are talking about here, truly, and i don't think
its relevant to anything.
i think winamp meant album artist to adjust th TPE2 tag, nothing more.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> Most of us would however agree that the most common use of 'intended' is
> the second choice: "The ID3v2.3 specification intended to use TPE2 as
> band/orchestra/accompaniment, implying a lesser role than the TPE1
> field of primary artist, and not quite the same as TPE3 ("CONDUCTOR")
> or TPE4 ("remix/otherwise modified by").
>
> It is not "finding another use" to actually follow the specifications.
i totally agree.
snarlydwarf;289390 Wrote:
> "Holy cow, this table saw cuts wood! Who would have guessed if I
> followed the directions it would do that! I found a whole new use for
> this thing!"
unnecessary.
when all is said and done the following is still true:
1. most software (meaning that which makes up the majority of market
share) uses band and album artist interchangeably for TPE2. this is in
fact what SC7 itself says in the infobox.
2. the option in question is ambiguous in its intent. is it designed
to not sort? if so, how are users to sort by TPE2 tags?
3. the option says "List" which to me sounds a lot more like SORT then
"show the album as by..."
4. given the market share reality of how TPE2 is most often used, and
given the infobox explanation, and given how the option sounds like
what its meant to do, [ie. list sounds more like sort] then its bad
when SC7 doesn't act in a way most would predict given those things.
5. its also dumb to have stuff display by TPE2 but not sort by it, (if
they don't have extra workaround tags as you do, and most don't).
6. however, its simply not feasible to use the other option, meaning
the one that ISN'T "list albums by band" as a workaround. that has
worse consequences, so list albums by band is then the lesser of two
evils.
7. if the option is meant to sort, not only obviously doesn't it, but
it also then makes the error of saying Band when it means ALBUMARTIST.
--
MrSinatra
www.LION-Radio.org
Using:
Squeezebox2 (primary) / SBR (secondary) / Jive - w/SC 7.0.1beta - Win
XP Pro SP2 - 3.2ghz / 2gig ram - D-Link DIR-655
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