Hi everyone,
I agree with many of the points raised and just wanted to briefly add
an experience I had at a bootcamp.
An older professor tried out Python, and was able to get the commands
to work. However, he didn't see how any of it would be more useful
for him compared to Excel, and ended up leaving the bootcamp early.
Some clear examples regarding reproducibility, analysis sharing, and
saving time in every bootcamp could go a long way.
Josh
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 5:55 PM, Daniel Chen <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Thanks Bill, and thanks anonymous student for sharing honest
feedback.
I personally have no problem with spread sheet applications. I
use it from time to time when I want to look at my output and
color code things and stuff... *gasp!*
But I do agree, I have fallen into the 'why do you use excel?
<insert language here> is so much better' mentality after working
in R/Python.
The good thing from the response was "deal[ing] with the uses of
Excel, where it was weak, and how to use it better." I would
suggest we continue to build on that (please share what was said
there) and to reiterate that Excel is not
great for reproducibility and code checking (unless they are
coding in VBA).
'human readable data' is okay but emphasize that consistency is
**key**. Meaning, if you are going to put multiple tables on the
same sheet, ideally these tables will have the same number of
columns and rows and have a set number of cells separating them.
This way they can transition into the R lesson nicely with the
XLConnect package (or something similar) that lets you import
excel files by sheet, column start, column end, row start, row
end. This way they can at least start to use R for graphics or
something, and slowly pick up the new language.
The main drawback with Excel is there's no way to check your
work. Especially if you do a find & replace's to re-code variables.
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Bill Mills
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Hey all,
So, a student from a workshop a little while ago didn't have
too great a time, and asked if their feedback could be shared
anonymously with instructors. Feedback follows; be aware,
this person is *angry* about what happened, but nevertheless
has many valid points; I'd like to put ire aside enough to
address the key points within.
**** begin student comments ****
There was a [workshop] that was meant to introduce Luddites
like myself to R and the like. I will admit that R is
intimidating, and the fanatical, almost cult-like regard some
have for it is more than a tad off-putting to me, so I have
put such a lesson off. Boy. I should have put it off
longer. The workshop was two days. I came only to the
first, though I had planned to go to the second, too. The
first part was supposed to deal with the uses of Excel, where
it was weak, and how to use it better. Great, I thought. I
never had any formal instruction in Excel, and instead have
clawed my way into a decent working knowledge of it over the
last almost two decades. I am very proud of what I can do
with it, and I have found it of great use, but I know there
is a ton I don't know, so I was looking forward to that
session. However, that session ended up being bitterly
offensive. The basic message being conveyed was "you are an
idiot for using Excel to do anything expect to put data into
R, and an even worse idiot if you do things to make data
comprehensible to a human." There were snide cartoons, there
was condescension... It was infuriating. The second session
was better, but still lousy. That was the introduction to R.
However, there was little organization. The files we needed
to download were not the ones they told us to download, and
this led to a lot of confusion at first. Then the instructor
was very disorganized in [their] teaching style, mumbling,
not explaining what [they were] doing, and so on. [They]
refused to make any handouts explaining the language of R, so
we were to input commands based on what [they] entered by
following [their] projected screen. However, [they] wouldn't
stay in the part of the screen with the commands long enough
for us to easily enter the commands, and then [they] didn't
explain how the commands worked. By the end I was livid,
tired, and very stressed. I was in one of those moods in
which I wish I could run through walls or do other Hulk smash
sorts of things. So I didn't go the next day, and decided to
get back into a better state of mind by going on a camping trip.
**** end student comments ****
So, there's a bunch of good content here, but the thing that
really sticks in my pipe is the line about 'There were snide
cartoons, there was condescension...' - I'm certain that
there are more perspectives on whatever was presented, and it
all came from a place of good intention, but having someone
walk away from a workshop feeling like 'an idiot' is
something we need to examine whether it was intended or not.
This is a complicated topic. There are a lot of problems with
excel, and if we can give researchers a better option, we
should. But there is also huge value in meeting researchers
where they are with respect, and giving them the opportunity
to try something new that will empower them, rather than
denigrating what they have achieved on their own. I admire
researchers who are able to build an analysis framework out
of the zero training they receive on the topic, whether I
like the tools they choose or not. And if we truly want
change, let's lead the charge with opportunity, rather than
trying to prod them from behind with aggression.
Which is all very nice to say - but how to do it remains a
question. I think that we are prone to communication misfires
like the one described above when we don't really know how to
brooch difficult topics. I propose that we have a discussion
about how to approach spreadsheet tools in our workshops at
the next Instructor Hangouts, one week from today (on Sept.
26); we can chat about what we want to achieve surrounding
spreadsheets, and how to advertise different tools in a way
that's going to resonate with students, rather than get their
shields up. We're moving to a Hangouts on Air setup for this
round, so if you would like to participate in the
conversation at 9AM PDT Sept. 26, let me know and I will be
sure to save you a speaking spot in the hangout; those that
would like to just observe, may do so through the youtube
broadcast (links forthcoming).
Phew! This is a tough one - but it's also an opportunity to
reach even more researchers. Looking forward to what we can
come up with together!
--
Bill Mills
Community Manager, Mozilla Science Lab
@billdoesphysics
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