On 2014-09-20 7:37 AM, Matt Davis wrote:
When people come to an event like SWC they come vulnerable. They know
they've been doing things the "wrong" way and are coming to us in
earnestness to learn. We need to respect that and the hard work
they've done so far by not being condescending or belittling. We have
all been in that same place, doing things the hard way because it's
the only way we know how. Students coming to Software Carpentry are on
the cusp of learning about the broader possibilities, but we can kill
their enthusiasm if the experience is unpleasant.
A very big +1 here, to remembering that our students are really putting
themselves out there! Being open to a course correction in how you do
your life's work is a vulnerable and fragile position; we certainly have
to remember this by not beating students over the head with how wrong
the instructor may think they are. In some sense, being willing to at
least partially start over requires the student to give up a lot of
power; putting the power back in the student's hands has to be
paramount, and making them feel all the more ineffective is no way to
get there.
I'm reminded of Hacker School's social rules:
https://www.hackerschool.com/manual#sub-sec-social-rules. Something
along those lines might be useful in SWC alongside our Code of Conduct.
+1 required reading!
As Trevor noted, we also need to be very clear and up front about
workshop goals. I don't know how this specific workshop was
advertised, but we should be careful about saying "use Excel better"
when we really mean "use Excel as little as possible".
Ah, but there it is again! Do we *really* really mean 'use excel as
little as possible'? Why? Because it's bad? And the student should feel
bad for liking it? Matt, of course you don't mean that somewhat
ridiculous extrapolation, but it's a super easy rabbit hole to
accidentally fall down if a student is as vulnerable as you (rightly)
say. In this thread alone, we have had suggestions that amount to:
- fully teaching Excel, in separate bootcamps
- teaching excel and something else alongside each other, to contrast
the two (and tacitly lead students away from excel)
- teaching excel as a first-class citizen of a pipeline
- including excel, to learn how to minimize it.
I don't think we really have a clear collective picture of just what we
want to do with this particular piece of technology, and it is uniquely
problematic because of how marginal GUI spreadsheets are in terms of
fitting SWC's north star values of reuse, reproducibility, automation
and sharing - and that confusion and conflict has resulted in a big
fumble in terms of respecting students' personal practices and emotional
states.
What if we prioritize this question, when considering GUI spreadsheets,
or any other piece of new technology: how can we demonstrate their
service to our values? By focusing on how spreadsheets and everything
else can point to our north star priorities, we make the conversation
consistently about those priorities, *and* we give our students,
vulnerable and uncertain as they may be, an exciting feeling of
empowerment when we show them how a familiar tool can be greater than
they ever imagined. *That* is motivating, and that's what's going to
keep our students thinking about reuse, reproducibility, automation and
sharing long past any love affair with any one tool.
Best,
Matt
On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Bill Mills
<[email protected]
<javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote:
Hey all,
So, a student from a workshop a little while ago didn't have too
great a time, and asked if their feedback could be shared
anonymously with instructors. Feedback follows; be aware, this
person is *angry* about what happened, but nevertheless has many
valid points; I'd like to put ire aside enough to address the key
points within.
**** begin student comments ****
There was a [workshop] that was meant to introduce Luddites like
myself to R and the like. I will admit that R is intimidating,
and the fanatical, almost cult-like regard some have for it is
more than a tad off-putting to me, so I have put such a lesson
off. Boy. I should have put it off longer. The workshop was two
days. I came only to the first, though I had planned to go to the
second, too. The first part was supposed to deal with the uses of
Excel, where it was weak, and how to use it better. Great, I
thought. I never had any formal instruction in Excel, and instead
have clawed my way into a decent working knowledge of it over the
last almost two decades. I am very proud of what I can do with
it, and I have found it of great use, but I know there is a ton I
don't know, so I was looking forward to that session. However,
that session ended up being bitterly offensive. The basic message
being conveyed was "you are an idiot for using Excel to do
anything expect to put data into R, and an even worse idiot if you
do things to make data comprehensible to a human." There were
snide cartoons, there was condescension... It was infuriating.
The second session was better, but still lousy. That was the
introduction to R. However, there was little organization. The
files we needed to download were not the ones they told us to
download, and this led to a lot of confusion at first. Then the
instructor was very disorganized in [their] teaching style,
mumbling, not explaining what [they were] doing, and so on.
[They] refused to make any handouts explaining the language of R,
so we were to input commands based on what [they] entered by
following [their] projected screen. However, [they] wouldn't stay
in the part of the screen with the commands long enough for us to
easily enter the commands, and then [they] didn't explain how the
commands worked. By the end I was livid, tired, and very
stressed. I was in one of those moods in which I wish I could run
through walls or do other Hulk smash sorts of things. So I didn't
go the next day, and decided to get back into a better state of
mind by going on a camping trip.
**** end student comments ****
So, there's a bunch of good content here, but the thing that
really sticks in my pipe is the line about 'There were snide
cartoons, there was condescension...' - I'm certain that there are
more perspectives on whatever was presented, and it all came from
a place of good intention, but having someone walk away from a
workshop feeling like 'an idiot' is something we need to examine
whether it was intended or not.
This is a complicated topic. There are a lot of problems with
excel, and if we can give researchers a better option, we should.
But there is also huge value in meeting researchers where they are
with respect, and giving them the opportunity to try something new
that will empower them, rather than denigrating what they have
achieved on their own. I admire researchers who are able to build
an analysis framework out of the zero training they receive on the
topic, whether I like the tools they choose or not. And if we
truly want change, let's lead the charge with opportunity, rather
than trying to prod them from behind with aggression.
Which is all very nice to say - but how to do it remains a
question. I think that we are prone to communication misfires like
the one described above when we don't really know how to brooch
difficult topics. I propose that we have a discussion about how to
approach spreadsheet tools in our workshops at the next Instructor
Hangouts, one week from today (on Sept. 26); we can chat about
what we want to achieve surrounding spreadsheets, and how to
advertise different tools in a way that's going to resonate with
students, rather than get their shields up. We're moving to a
Hangouts on Air setup for this round, so if you would like to
participate in the conversation at 9AM PDT Sept. 26, let me know
and I will be sure to save you a speaking spot in the hangout;
those that would like to just observe, may do so through the
youtube broadcast (links forthcoming).
Phew! This is a tough one - but it's also an opportunity to reach
even more researchers. Looking forward to what we can come up with
together!
--
Bill Mills
Community Manager, Mozilla Science Lab
@billdoesphysics
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Discuss mailing list
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--
Bill Mills
Community Manager, Mozilla Science Lab
@billdoesphysics
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