Hi Rob, In the context though of a newbie starting out, I think they need some skills that would let them stand out in a crowd and that was my point here. Absolutely, get some good certs, pick your poison (specialize as much as possible by researching where the people are needed) and then round yourself out with the "skills" I noted. Sure, I agree completely after 10+ years in the field you and I can do things that not anyone can. I also work with folks who are even better than I at some things that have less experience. But REAL experience and REAL training isn't cheap (and I think that only comes when you are working). And for the most part "skills" can be taught when needed and thus are considered fairly "cheap" in my books. It's that experience part that's hard to get and quantify.
As I believe was mentioned in another thread there is also a big BS factor that comes into play with people and "IT/IS" and what they know (or think they know) and that's a tough one. Certs can help weed that out but aren't the be-all some think they should be. They are only part of the equation. And for those folks following this thread - DO NOT by any means think that you don't need true computing skills to start with. That wasn't my intent. Get 'em. Get the best ones you can or forget it... I can honestly say after 15+ years I STILL learn new stuff every day. And if I didn't, I probably wouldn't be doing it. Best Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Brockway Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:50 PM To: LOPSA Discuss List Subject: Re: [lopsa-discuss] CISSP? On Sat, 22 Aug 2009, Jeff & Heather Malloch wrote: > I think more and more the learning of "technical skills" is something that > any business thinks should come cheap. And I have a tendency to agree. IT > systems have become endemic to society and business. Everyone has *some* > knowledge about computers or has the ability to easily learn about them. That may be true as far as basic skills are concerned but I have to disagree when it comes to advanced ('expert level') computing skills. There shouldn't be any more expectation that advanced computer skills are any more likely to be cheap than advanced medical or engineering skills. Each one takes a person many years to master. Recent research has suggested that it takes 10 years to master a profession. Once the body of knowledge grows such that more than 10 years is required, the profession splits to restore the balance. The figure of 10 years seems right to me both in terms of my personal experience and looking at the wider world. There are a lot of people with basic computer skills. There are very few people with advanced computer skills (aka 'clue'). In my experience they tend to be found in professional associations and user groups. It's easy to forget that most people don't understand what we understand about how computers and networks work. I'll give you an example. The other day I setup & tested multi-master/multi-slave replication under OpenLDAP. It wasn't hard. I did it so I could move on to testing something for a project I'm working on. The vast majority of the population don't know what LDAP is, why they might want to use it, how they would setup the infrastructure to install it, let alone actually doing it. Even the majority of people working in technical positions would be hard pressed to do what an experienced sysadmin can do. Like a lot of people here I'm equally confortable working with a DB server or an MTA or whatever. I can design a system/network/application or whatever and make it work. Very few people can 'make it work'. As long as the ability to design systems and make them work is rare it will be compensated well. History tends to show that we will continue to build more and more complex systems (as layers below become easier to work with) so there will only ever be a small minority of people who really understand how the most advanced systems work. This is true in every profession I think. Having said that, I do agree that "adding business value" improves the value of an employee to the employer. It doesn't follow that the technicals skills themselves have (or will) become cheap. Cheers, Rob -- I tried to change the world but they had a no-return policy http://www.practicalsysadmin.com _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.65/2324 - Release Date: 08/24/09 12:55:00 _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list [email protected] http://lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators http://lopsa.org/
